In this heartfelt episode, Sunshine and Daniel dive into the complexities of love and relationships after alcohol recovery. They open up about their personal journeys—Sunshine shares her experience of dating someone in recovery versus her past relationship where addiction was a shared struggle, while Daniel reflects on his years-long path to sobriety, marked by multiple relapses.
Together, they explore the profound benefits of dating someone who truly understands the recovery journey—like peaceful morning walks, attending events without the pressure of alcohol, and the deep emotional support that only someone on the same path can provide. Through laughter, honesty, and raw reflection, they emphasize the importance of self-love, mutual growth, and the unique connection that forms when both partners are committed to healing.
Whether you’re in recovery yourself or supporting someone who is, this episode offers insight, hope, and a reminder that love after addiction isn’t just possible—it can be transformative.
Sunshine
Alright, there we go. We are live. Hey everyone. Welcome back to to the sober witch life. You know, we are in the special episodes, which is life, the magic after alcohol, right? So you got Dan and I here. Hi Dan. We chatted beforehand about what we wanted to talk about, and we think it’s a topic a lot of folks are going to be interested in, because, not going to lie, you know, I know, Dan, I sit in a lot more of the Facebook groups and recovery groups and things of that nature. But relationships are a big topic, like relationships and dating after, you know, on that recovery path is a big topic. It’s a huge one, things are so different after you’re in recovery. Yeah, so I thought we’d talk about that today. And to start off, here’s an interesting thing, right? Because I think when we’re talking about relationships here today, I want to be clear, you know, our friendships, our family, those are some of the things that can be different as well, but we’re talking about love relationships. So Dan, what’s your definition of love?
Daniel Leyten
I think connection, like deep connection. That’s the one word. I think for me,
Sunshine
I love that I am, you know, and I think I was sitting there because I knew I was going to was going to ask this, and I was like, you know, the term itself can be a noun, as in, like a thing, right, something that we aim to achieve, you know, we want to find love, so to speak, it can also be a a verb right to love, like when you love someone. So it’s a really complex word, and I think it’s not a surprise to say that, because love relationships, when we introduce love into a relationship, they can become complex. Yeah, yeah. There’s a lot of different types of love too. I love my mother. Love my children. I love you, yeah, yeah. It’s and they’re all different, every every bit of them, you know? And so I think, and it, what was it the other night, I can’t remember if it was done the recovery circle or not. And it came up and somebody had made the comment about love, and I responded back, you know, when I was younger, I I really despise the Beatles song. All You Need Is Love. Mm, hmm, if it was that, yeah, and, you know, because, like, it was just, I thought it was bullshit. When I was younger, I literally thought it was bullshit. Like, No, you need respect. You need you know, mutual understanding. And as I’ve been on this journey and been in recovery, I’ve come to understand that song and the simplicity is, yeah, I think all you really do need is love. Because if you have that in a relationship, you’re also going to have the things like the respect and the appreciation and the compassion and the kindness, right?
Daniel Leyten
Yeah, love is, love is really all that matters in this life. You know,
Sunshine
I would agree, you know, with without it, down to it, yeah, and without it, I would think that’s where some of us end up in our darkest at times, yeah, yeah, you know, in the search for it, oh gosh, yeah. Search for it takes you through some dark places too. Man, man, it does. Sometimes you think you found it and you didn’t. I mean, I didn’t have this down, but I’m curious what’s your thoughts on love for self,
Daniel Leyten
right? That’s something before I think I met you, I didn’t really consider a whole lot.
Sunshine
It’s a common sentiment. When you start to talk about healing, you know that in order for us to truly love someone else, we have to be able to love ourselves first, you know, and you know, care for ourselves and have as much compassion for ourselves as we do others. And I think I’ve just watched it, you know, I’ve, I’ve been working with folks that have been on a healing journey for a long time, and so many of us are more likely to give that kindness, that compassion and that respect to others.
Daniel Leyten
Yeah, that was definitely my it was kind of trying to look out for everyone else, and leaving myself behind a lot, and then taking care of myself with things that aren’t good for me, alcohol, my time, you know, kind of squirreling my time away with that. I’m just going to work and like, trying to take care of the family and spend time with the kids, and like, kind of leaving myself. And
Sunshine
one of the things I want to touch on is, what was it like to be in a relationship while you were trying to get sober, right? You know, while you were while you recognized that you needed to make that change. What was it like to still be in a relationship?
Daniel Leyten
Well, I wasn’t. I was still married. It wasn’t going very well, and no connection there. So that was very difficult. I trying to take care of myself in that way, and kind of going through all these miraculous changes and being with someone that didn’t really care much for me, you know. So I had that experience too, and then getting out into the dating world, people always associate dates and going out, I think, with like there’s alcohol involved, or to loosen you up and go out to restaurants, and it’s always kind of there, unless you find somebody that’s actually in recovery. That’s something you have to think about. Think,
Sunshine
yeah, I am, you know, I know this is one of those places that you and I have a different story, because the relationship that I was in when I stepped into recovery was, you know, I had a lot of connection, I still had a lot of love, but he was an addict, you know, And he was what I consider a partner in crime. And, you know, there’s nothing that I loved, I used to love more than getting completely shit faced with the person I was with, yeah, you know. And so we did, we did a lot of it’s not like we were out at, you know, we weren’t the life of the party at every he’s he was a loud dude. He was he was a you had to really, you had to get to know Him, to love him, so to speak. But, yeah, I mean, we, we spent a lot of time together, and we spent a lot of time drinking together. You know, whether it was getting up and going to brunch and having, you know, beer with, you know, lunch, or if it was bringing beers home at night and sitting and drinking like we we drank a lot. I’ve, I’ve done some of the calculations, and I would say on average, and that would be at the low average, it was $150 a week. We were spending an alcohol I would say we were probably closer to about 250 Yeah, between going out and what we were bringing home,
Daniel Leyten
especially going out. Oh, God, so much money. Yeah, yeah. Tip very generously, because you
Sunshine
I mean, I took generously, I do, but especially
Daniel Leyten
generously, especially, you know, you have a regular bartender, it
Sunshine
wasn’t the tipping piece, it was the buying for other people, because we don’t like to drink alone. Yeah, right. So it’s like, I’m going to order another round for us. I’m also going to order another round for everybody else. And next thing you know, my normal 150 bar tabs, $350 yeah. I mean, I can’t tell you how many times over the course of my, like, corporate career, where we’d be out as a group, you know, there’d be 1015, of us, and I’d walk out paying a $750 bar tab. Yeah, because I wanted everybody’s company,
Daniel Leyten
yep, yep, and you want everybody have a good time,
Sunshine
yeah. So it was, it was really hard to first step into recovery for me, because I knew I couldn’t, you know, to start off like I I knew it was my problem. I knew it was my problem, and my even though, I say, my partner was an addict, his drug of choice was an alcohol, his drug of choice was heroin, and he had been sober, you know, had been using a harm reduction program since pretty much shortly after we’d met, and so I knew the alcohol was my problem, and so I still, I didn’t, I didn’t try to force a change upon Him, until my final relapse, when I realized, you know. We were there in Costa Rica for my 40th birthday that and I chose to drink, to drink, but my partner in crime was drinking, and so it was. I didn’t have a plan. I didn’t have a backup plan. I didn’t have something, you know what I was going to do. I just didn’t. I was like, I’ve described it as raw dogging with no plan what I was how I was going to handle it. And so, yeah, I relapsed for the last time, you know, to drink with him on vacation. And it suck, though, because afterwards, we were probably about two and a half, maybe three weeks back from that trip, and I’d started to go to AA, and I made the like realization that I couldn’t, I couldn’t date someone that was going to drink. I just couldn’t like I knew that that was the slipperiest slope that I could be on.
Daniel Leyten
No, I understand my my experience was very different with my ex wife. She was not a drinker when I was and that really made us separate and made me isolate and kind of do it in private, you know, and hide it a lot. So that was a very different experience. There wasn’t the kind of egging each other on and doing it together, it made me really, really isolate from her.
Sunshine
I know you and I have talked about this too, a little bit, but so you decide to get sober, and our experiences with the support was different, you know. So even though I decided and knew that I couldn’t date someone, I told this. I expressed this to my partner at the time, and I said, Hey, man. I said, this breaks my heart, but I just I can’t. So, like, either we need to talk about parting ways, or you need to, you’re, you’re going to need to step on this bandwagon with me, right? And so I had, I started to receive support, right? I really did, like he started to show up and support me in in my recovery, in a way that was very beautiful. I mean, it led to all sorts of wild and crazy experiences in itself, but it was, it was a much different experience for you, and I the level of support being in recovery.
Daniel Leyten
Yeah, I did it on my own. It was which was really hard, and it took me a long time to get, get to the place I where I was able to stop
Sunshine
your years, right? I mean, I was like, all this happened for me in this condensed one year, right? Multiple relapses, all in one year. You were years, years
Daniel Leyten
and years i i tried to quit so many times. I did a lot of reading and book after book after book, and I would try, and there was one time my my ex wife, did approach me about it, and I went, it was, it was a couple months, and I would say I went through a really hard time at work. We were so busy over the holiday season where I worked, I’m a chef, you know, and I made it through the holidays sober and but not eating right, and still alone like. And then January, you know, after January hit, one day, I just walked into a liquor store and bought a fifth of vodka, and I drank raid my car, and I went hard after that, like, for five years, I drank like got worse and worse and worse before, before I actually got to the place where I quit,
Sunshine
you know? And I, I thought it would be important to kind of touch on that, that everybody’s journey is different, right? Everyone, everyone gets to the point that they step into recovery from a different path. And it really doesn’t matter if it’s, you know, one relapse, five relapses, years in between, you know, but it goes back to kind of like how we started this conversation. At some point you’re going to learn and realize. Is that you’ve gotta love yourself enough to step into and stay on that
Daniel Leyten
road of recovery. Yeah, for me, it was just sheer survival. At the end of it, it was, I wouldn’t say it was love for myself. It was like love for my children. Yeah,
Sunshine
you may not have recognized that it was love for yourself, but I’ll tell you, there are a lot of people that would have made a different decision because they couldn’t love themselves. Yeah,
Daniel Leyten
yeah, it was I started to love life after that, after I was able to stop. But initially it was mainly that was how I saw it. Yeah, it’s, I’m just wanting to live, you know,
Sunshine
yeah, I mean that that’s me can be the simplest way of loving yourself, just having the desire to live, you know, not living like that. Oh no, it’s tough. It’s it’s tough. And I, you know, there are some folks that, you know, I talked to a handful of folks that don’t know or understand or have experiences with addiction, in the dark, in the dark corners, right? You know? And then they start to hear, or they they bear witness to some of the stories. And, yeah, it’s a it’s a different world that we live in when we we battle these the darkness. Yeah,
Daniel Leyten
you can’t describe it to somebody that hasn’t been through it. It sounds like crazy talk, like when you try and tell someone there is a lot of, I don’t know what, what goes through their mind, but it’s, it’s not empathy. It’s like they don’t understand it. No,
Sunshine
in it’s because some of some of these folks, when they’ve had their, you know, their darkest hours, so to speak, the their ways of being able to get out haven’t required them or coming something like substance abuse, or, you know, substance addiction. Yeah, it’s a it’s a different story. Now, you and I both dated, you know, in essence, we’re dating prior to meeting, and these individuals weren’t sober, no, yeah, what was that like? That was
Daniel Leyten
i It doesn’t after I Finally Quit. It doesn’t necessarily bother me to be with somebody that drinks, but you see, the it’s not like a trigger for me, like the alcohol. It’s not a trigger for me to make me want to drink. I’m pretty rock solid with that now, but it’s the seeing someone not loving themselves like that, and seeing them going through that, that’s what hurts, yeah, that they’re still in it. And it’s, it’s hard, it’s hard to watch. You know, it’s the main reason I don’t go into bars. It’s not because of the alcohol. It’s going to trigger, trigger me. It’s, it makes me sad to see people sitting there, and seeing those guys at the bar sitting there. You know they’re in there every night, and just this rigmarole of looking
Sunshine
for a connection through the waiter, looking for a connection bartender,
Daniel Leyten
it’s just makes me sad, and I that’s the part I didn’t like seeing someone being in it, not knowing how to help them, or if they even want to, you know,
Sunshine
yeah, well, often the help isn’t in the form of helping to get sober or to step into recovery. The help is in other ways. I mean, for me, you know, that same partner I continued to stay with for another two and a half years. And so the help was from a financial perspective, from a you know, mental health perspective, and I think even from, you know, the individual that I believe you were dating, there was requests for help to do things, you know, for her, yeah, it was hard, you know, so I did my my my partner at the time, agreed to not drink, and I was grateful for that. I’ve since come to realize, though, right, that he he chose it just to not drink around me or to tell me that he was drinking, and even though he was still on his Harm Reduction Program for you know, to help him not use heroin, the pandemic set in shortly after I got sober and he didn’t have a job anymore. There, I still worked. And so this is a lot of time and energy on his hand, which little hands, oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, you know. And so he hit it. He hit it. I mean, that’s the truth of it. Like when somebody isn’t truly embracing their recovery, right? Aren’t as serious about their recovery? You
Daniel Leyten
know, they can’t just do it for somebody, because they’re asking you to. It’s like, it doesn’t work like that.
Sunshine
No, no. And, you know, that’s the the truth. It’s like, even though I know he loved me and he was attempting to do some of these things, because he did. He loved me very deeply, very deeply. He did not love himself, you know, he did not love himself. And he was just so funny, because he’s like, can see you can see her, yeah, she’s
Daniel Leyten
actually thinking about it too. She’s like, What is he doing in both places.
Sunshine
She tried to swat you on the screen. So funny, yeah, you know it was he just didn’t, he didn’t love himself enough to take care of himself. And so he started to abuse stimulants. You know, I found out that he was getting adderalls from someone. And you know, the unfortunate truth is man, and I love this man very much. And you know, rest in peace. He’s no longer on this earth. So I don’t mean to speak ill of him, but I do mean like, he showed me some of the darkest sides of addiction. Yeah, right. He really did, you know, I thought my side grew dark. No, his. Because this is a man that it didn’t matter what the substance was, he was going to try to figure out a way to use it. Yeah, right. And, you know, he, he was in the military at some point, had a really rough life, and, you know, had been diagnosed with bipolar. And the unfortunate truth is, is somebody that struggles with either mania or he’d have actually been by by diagnosed also with schizoaffective disorder, stimulants can cause you to not sleep, and lack of sleep is the number one trigger for somebody to have an episode. So it was rough. I’ll just, I’ll just put it to you. It was really rough. And then he just story, just continuing to choose to not to love himself. You know, this is what it all
Daniel Leyten
boils down to, is to lack love them. So, yeah,
Sunshine
yeah, you know. And it’s, it didn’t matter, like he was a I adore him very much. I loved him very much. You know, still do, even after we had to part ways. I still loved him. But the reality is, he did not want to respect himself, love himself, care for himself, tend to himself, you know. And from a mental health perspective, he very well may have almost been incapable of it, you know, I’ve come to realize some of that, you know, I remember my heart broke because he told me the medication that required him to, like, kind of, I guess, be grounded or in a state of no psychosis made him feel like he wasn’t alive, that he was so dead and numb To the world. Yeah, I think a lot
Daniel Leyten
those medications are,
Sunshine
there’s a lot of that,
Daniel Leyten
that numbness they bring.
Sunshine
I know the the individual you’re dating before we started wasn’t as bad, but you even had shared a couple of episodes that were just kind of jaw dropping. Oh yeah,
Daniel Leyten
yeah, for sure, a lot of fog, a lot of fogginess, and didn’t. Would never tell me, yeah, you know, she was on anything, but I knew, you know, like, really you’re not. There’s a lot of that, a lot of fog and sleep and all the time.
Sunshine
All very obvious to me, you know? But if there’s one thing addicts do very, very well. It’s lie, yeah, lie and hide, yeah, yeah. And I think this goes again as to why, for me personally, it was so important when I did start to date again that the individual. People didn’t just say, you know, because I had a, I had lots of people tell me, you know, make the comment of, like, oh, I don’t drink a lot. I don’t drink often, right? I needed someone that knew what sober was like. I just, I knew, I knew that’s what I needed. Because it’s so easy for people to literally lie to themselves, even,
Daniel Leyten
yeah, and when I was actually able to quit, when was when I realized that the the fool’s errand of the alcoholic is thinking that you can moderate. That’s the real thing is, like, once you figure that out, you’re good, you know, the idea that, Oh, I can just have, I’ll just have wine at dinner, because I’ve been through all that bullshit, and it’s all bullshit, it is. And when you hear people say that, they say, you know, oh, I just drink a little you’re like, Mm, hmm, okay, I
Sunshine
remember, you know, so I I’ve had addiction around me in some way, shape or form my entire life. So I had a very dear friend that I was very close to, and, you know, I tried to get her sober three times. She was an opiate addict. And I remember the one time when, you know, this is like, when my gifts, I started to pay a bit more attention to my gifts and start to trust them. Even before I got sober, I started to, like, trust them a little bit more. And I remember her, once upon a time, telling me, I asked, How many pills will you take in a day? And she said, oh, about six to eight. And I heard in my head, it’s more like 12 to 15,
Daniel Leyten
yeah, you can at least double it. And I was like, oh, what? Uh,
Sunshine
oh, my God, I finally got her to admit to it at some point, like, I really, like, pushed hard. And I was like, I don’t think that’s the case. I said, You need to tell me, yeah, um, because, yeah, I mean, even you know addicts and I, you know, these are my partner, this friend, opioids, they’re it’s a very dark addiction. When you’re addicted to opioids, very, very dark. It’s like most different but alcohol, I know you’ve said it, you hit it, right? I know one of my, like, kind of eye opening times for me, there’s a whole bunch, but there’s one that sticks in my head very clearly. And, you know, my partner and I had been drinking, you know, at the house, and he was tired, he wanted to go to bed, and I wasn’t done. So I said, Okay, I’ll meet you upstairs. And I went, and I poured half a glass of vodka and another half a glass of whatever I was mixing it with and chunked it. It was the first time that I ever like, truly, like, felt like I was sneaking or hiding it, right? And if I had to pace like, time wise, it was probably in my last year drinking, you know, so I can’t even imagine what life would like, the amount I would have hidden stuff, right? I can’t even imagine,
Daniel Leyten
especially, you were with somebody that was a drinker too, and it wasn’t so, and I wasn’t in place to stop that time. And, yeah, there was a lot of hiding it and trying to get home before everybody was home. And yeah, you know, yep, right, everybody goes to bed and we go downstairs and sit in the basement. And, yeah, I was drinking a lot too. So
Sunshine
yeah, I didn’t have to hide from him, but I hid from a lot of people, you know, you go out and you you make the excuse to have to leave an event early, right? And it’s like, oh, you know, I want to get to bed. But no, it’s really, you don’t want people to see no, that I’m having seven, eight drinks. Yeah,
Daniel Leyten
you want go and put on this show that you’re just a social drinker. Yep. And then when you get home, it’s really on the real, yeah, it comes out. The
Sunshine
moderating thing is, I, you know, and I have met one or two individuals out of all of the folks that I’ve ever seen in a group, or I met in person, one or two individuals that have literally come through and said, Oh, you know, I can now just have a beer every now and again, you know, or whatever. And I’m in my head, I’m going, like, but how much energy is that taking? Yeah,
Daniel Leyten
it’s almost like, it’s almost creating suffering. I would think,
Sunshine
you know, the amount of restraint that’s needed, yeah, right? The amount of like, it is only this one it, you know, like, I, I don’t know about you, but after I stopped, I started to look back and realize how much time and energy in my thought process I spent around drinking or not drinking, yeah, you know, like, Oh, I’m only going to drink. On the weekend, every night when I would get home, it would be like, okay, just two more days to the weekend. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. In the
Daniel Leyten
that, that suffering that goes with, I didn’t want to be that person that in recovery that was constantly counting the I mean, those milestones are great, and they’re, they’re, they’re great. It’s like, I’ve been seven years. It’s amazing, you know, when you look back on it, but I didn’t want to be that person that’s counting like, it’s almost like you miss it, and you’re like, I wanted to be like, free of it, like, when I look back on it now, I to even think about having just a beer. I’m like, Oh, I just don’t want a it grosses me out. I that was how I was able to quit. I made it in an enemy, yeah, and made it. It makes me nauseous to even think about having a beer. It makes me feel, if I think about having a beer right now, that makes me feel like this lethargy that’s sinking in that fullness feeling in my stomach. I feel all the negative stuff when I think about it. And if I was to have one, it would probably ruin that. You know,
Sunshine
it’s wild. I don’t think I told you this, but the other day, when Heather and I were out, I had ordered a latte. It was, I forget what it was like, a honey spice latte or something of that nature, and I couldn’t finish it because whatever the syrup was had some alcoholic taste to it, yeah. And I was like, I was like, I don’t, I don’t think it is right. And the the coffee bar actually had an actual bar on it too. That’s where my head was like, Oh, fudge. What if they, what if they mixed it up? Yeah, made some mistake, and so I poured almost a Whole Latte.
Daniel Leyten
Mistake. Yeah, I know even, like a kombucha sometimes gives me a little of that. Oh,
Sunshine
there’s a lot of people in in recovery that won’t even drink kombucha, yeah, because it’s got a little bit, yeah, it’s got a little fun, a little bit.
Daniel Leyten
And sometimes I like that,
Sunshine
yeah, so good for your gut health, though.
Daniel Leyten
I know it is, but it’s that’s I like them too sometimes, but I get a little of that. It makes me a little it’s not a trigger. It’s a little like, gives me that feeling like I’m it makes me not enjoy it. Yeah, that’s what it is. It makes me not enjoy it.
Sunshine
So you and I met, which is strange and, uh, not, I don’t think intended. I mean, I know I was actively dating, right? I know I was like, actively I’d made the decision, you know, that I was going to start. I was a year into my own, my own recovery. I felt like I was ready to welcome love into my life. I even did a spell to bring that love into my life. I think it was around like March or April. I did a full spell because I did, you know, I I enjoy having a partner in my life, and I personally wanted someone who was committed to a beautiful life, you know, just as committed to a beautiful life as I was, you know, but I always kind of chuckle thinking about like we didn’t start talking right, like it was such a, I don’t know, do you remember like It was such a I think you’d messaged about my hair. Yeah,
Daniel Leyten
yeah. I just, I saw your, your images on there, and you just seemed like a happy person. And I remember seeing, like, a picture of your kitchen, you know, bright yellow, and you had this bright pink hair. And I was like, that’s the person that loves life. I I want to get to know her. I messaged and you know that you were in recovery was a big part, too. I don’t I speak direction. I did,
Sunshine
I maybe I did say so we, you know, we’re I was dancing around. You met on a dating app. Yeah,
Daniel Leyten
yeah, you had it posted on there. You had it on there.
Sunshine
I don’t know that you did, though, so I don’t think I realized you were no, I did. Did you?
Daniel Leyten
Yeah, I had, I definitely had it listed on there that I’m sober, and I didn’t. I wasn’t necessarily not going to see somebody that wasn’t, but it was definitely an attraction that you were sober too.
Sunshine
Yeah, it was a, you know, and it was hard. I, I had, and, you know, a lot of people say that it’s easier for women to date. I don’t know that that’s a true statement. I really don’t I think, I think certain individuals, i. Have it easier because they’re more social. You know, I don’t think it’s man versus woman, because I know plenty of men that will tell you they have no hard time dating. But, yeah, I mean, we just started chatting. I remember, I remember it was like a really casual, like, conversation, and I think it was shortly into it that we even found out we both had a thing about New Orleans too. Yeah,
Daniel Leyten
yeah, yeah. We had a lot in common,
Sunshine
yeah, between the art New Orleans being in recovery,
Daniel Leyten
I really like the idea of I not that so much, even that you were sober, but to have somebody that understood
Sunshine
what it’s like, oh, god, yeah,
Daniel Leyten
like that had that, that in common, that it wasn’t so much that it’s that, that I that I wanted like somebody that understood that what I’d been through and had that in common, and that that was a big thing for me. Oh, come on. Come on, man, somebody could be somebody could be sober and and not have that understanding, yeah,
Sunshine
- I mean, that’s a that’s a true statement, you know, people can, there’s some folks that will choose not to drink, you know, they just don’t. It’s not their path. But for them, they may not have had to overcome addiction, you know, addiction? Yeah, I get that, you know, I think that was a really, really big deal. Same thing for me of knowing that I didn’t have to, because I can’t tell you how many conversations I had had up until that point around, why I didn’t drink, why I was choosing not to drink, why it wasn’t just a moderation I mean, I had a couple of guys that were like, well, can’t you just have won at some point, like, isn’t it? And I’m still like, What are you talking about?
Daniel Leyten
I never had that problem. I never had anybody really question. It didn’t make it a big focal point, either, but I I would just say, I don’t drink. But I also would also go out and go out to a bar sometimes with somebody and just not drink. Yeah, I didn’t, I didn’t have anybody question, because, I guess we just didn’t have big conversations about it. I kept it pretty simple,
Sunshine
yeah, I knew. I knew, right? And I think maybe that’s a difference between you and I, like you’d spent so much time isolating, like you’d kept your drinking career separate, right? Where, for me it was, like my drinking career was what was with whoever I was with, yeah, yeah, you know. So I knew that if the individual that I was, you know, drank, drank, on occasion, came home without, like, I just knew that it was not going to be a pleasant situation. I remember there was a gentleman that I was dating before you, and I, I think actually, it kind of crossed over and, you know, he said he didn’t drink. He hadn’t drink in months or anything, and I hadn’t seen him in about a week, and I showed up at his house and he he’d had, like, the week off, and I showed up his house on a Thursday, and he just gotten out of the shower. And even though he it’d been like an hour, I remember hugging him and feeling that clamminess that people get, yeah, when they are, like, detoxing off of a bender, yeah, yeah. And I was like, Oh, God, I don’t think I saw him after that one, because I was, I remember you telling me about that, yeah, it was just, you know, I mean, that’s the thing, like people are searching for love and they want a connection, you know, as you were saying, and so, yeah, there are times we will lie. To avoid, you know, ruining our chances at it. Yeah? And, I think,
Daniel Leyten
yeah, lie and, and underplay. Oh god, yeah, the amount, you
Sunshine
know, yeah, I think that’s why, to me, it was such a beautiful thing to have found you and known same thing that you are in recovery because, like, it wasn’t going to be, it wasn’t going to have to be something that I helped somebody understand, right, like, why it was so important that they, you know, not choose to Drink. Like, same thing, you know, I I’ve been around with people. I’ve gone and done dinners where people have ordered drinks. I don’t go to the bar a lot, but yes, if somebody wanted to meet at a bar for food, wouldn’t have an issue if they wanted me to meet them at the bar so they could drink, and I could sit there and be like, No, not my cup of tea. Um. Hmm, but it just not a, not a pleasant experience to, you know, be around. So it was so, so amazing to have, you know, found someone that understood. So I, I agree with that, to
Daniel Leyten
go out and do things and everything’s not revolves around alcohol, like going out before it was like, Where, where can we go or we can drink? Oh, my goodness, where I can drink? Yeah, and just be able to go out and when I when I quit, that was the best freedom for me was like, I was like a like a prisoner in my house when I drank, I didn’t want to go out drunk driving and and all that and and spend all the money even. But when I quit, I was like, it was like a new world. I could go out in the at night and go for a walk and not have to worry about getting pulled over. Yeah, it was like a whole new world after that. I know
Sunshine
that’s one of the reasons that we talked about starting this podcast. What’s your like? You know, when you look back, I mean, we’ve got about three and a half years that we’ve been together. You know what’s, what’s some of the favorite because I agree, like we don’t have, there’s so many opportunities. And so what’s like, what’s some of your favorite things to do? My
Daniel Leyten
favorite thing we do is, when we’re both off, we go over to the Ford mansion and walk over there and go through the gardens. That’s my favorite.
Sunshine
You know, my favorite part about it is that it’s like in the morning, yeah, right. Think about like, I don’t know about you, if I if I had a day off when I was still drinking my ass wasn’t up and out of the house at 8am that
Daniel Leyten
every day, I’m still thankful that I don’t have a hangover. I mean, it may have subsided a little bit, but I remember the first, first few years where, like, every day, I’d wake up feeling amazing and do this be like, God, I’m not feeling that way anymore, that horrible hangover in the morning and not dragging yourself out of bed. And, yeah, we get up and feel fresh in the morning and go out and grab a coffee and go walk and look at some flowers. And, yeah, it’s lovely. That’s my favorite thing that we do. I would, I would agree. I would, I’m looking forward to it the spring for that it’s a little too cold. It’s negatives today. So, yeah,
Sunshine
I know. Well, we still got to make it out there when it snows and just take that picture.
Daniel Leyten
Yeah, we just need one photo. Yeah, it’s not today, though. I
Sunshine
would, I would agree like I’ve loved, you know, you and I’ve had this conversation mornings. You know, even though I’ve always, I’ve been a night owl most of my life, there’s something really beautiful about the quiet and the calm and the peace and mourning. Yeah,
Daniel Leyten
I’ve always been a morning person, but the drinking didn’t necessarily facilitate that very well. I mean, I’ve always had to get up for work and all that, but I’ve always enjoyed that early morning piece that you’re talking about, yeah, getting up and being somewhere. I was just in New York City, and with my son, and he would sleep in, I let him sleep in, and I go out for a walk in Manhattan, and it’s like even walking through like Times Square, there’s a few people, but it’s so different. I love that.
Sunshine
It is so different. I you know, weekdays, weekends. It doesn’t matter if you get up and out of the house before, like, 9am it’s a different world. Yeah, it’s lovely. It’s a very different world, you know. And I think some of my favorite times that we’ve, we’ve talked about this, you know, the sun’s not coming up right now until, I think, closer to almost 8am but when you get closer to, you know, summer solstice, the sun’s going to come up before 6am and just even to me laying in bed, is that sun comes up and being able to sit there and listen to the birds, yeah, oh yeah. You know, hearing those little guys, and you don’t have any nobody’s cutting their lawn that early. Sure, nobody’s doing the leaf blower, any of that it is, it’s a truly magical time to be present and to acknowledge that presence and appreciate it. Oh yeah,
Daniel Leyten
yeah, I agree with that.
Sunshine
Mornings, I you know, there is and any time that we can get out and go and do those types of things. But I will say, in addition, is we’ve done other stuff that the events that I think of, that like normally would have evolved around alcohol, like a concert, right? We’ve also been able to. Go to and, you know, see a lot of really amazing acts, and that, to me, has been really beautiful. Because in the past, whoever I would have been with, we all would have been drinking, yeah,
Daniel Leyten
we got a few of those concerts kind of ruined by people drinking too. Yeah, had this, that one wild drunk just running around. You’re just like, let’s go.
Sunshine
Yeah, I felt like he was like, following us. Well, you had the other one with the kids that got Yeah, you know, trampled on too, old lady,
Daniel Leyten
ladies hanging on me, all drunk, and when I was there with my kids, and we all left and kind of ruined the night for us,
Sunshine
yeah? I Yeah, always a bummer. But like being able to go and participate in these shows and not have to pay $14 for a beer,
Daniel Leyten
yeah? Well, yeah, just the money piece,
Sunshine
not having the pre game so you don’t have to pay $14 for a beer, yeah, getting
Daniel Leyten
to remember the show. Oh my Yeah. It’s not a big fog, yeah.
Sunshine
Oh yeah. I mean, I will say my memory, just from what I do, from being a psychic, is always a little bit fuzzy, but not having to feel like it was robbed from me, yeah, you know, memories of the things that we’ve
Daniel Leyten
done, yeah, those blackout movements, there’s, there’s a lot of those.
Sunshine
There is I have a lot of I always say to myself, I wish I kept all the concert tickets from the shows that I’ve attended, because I’ve done a lot, and there’s been a lot that I don’t remember, yeah, lot that I don’t remember.
Daniel Leyten
In my experience, I just missed the shows that was home, yeah, and go out and do it, and go out and do that stuff,
Sunshine
you know, being with someone else that’s, you know, sober and in recovery. I know I asked you, what’s your kind of favorite things to do, but like, what about that? Like, what’s what’s your like, if you were to, like, pause and just think about that as a concept, as a fact, like, what is about that that you enjoy, about what no being with someone that’s sober and in recovery, right? What about that? You know, not what we do. But what about that fact that do you enjoy?
Daniel Leyten
I enjoy the understanding and the connection with it, and I think we understand each other better, and we can have those nice, quiet moments in the morning. And, yeah,
Sunshine
I am, I think about it sometimes, and I think, you know, when people step on to the path of recovery, and they’re truly, you know, embracing that different life. They’re not just on a path of recovery, they’re on a path of growth, yeah, you know, and so that, to me, is the thing that I appreciate and enjoy a lot, is that we’ve, even though it’s only been three and a half years, I I feel like we’ve been able to grow together, yeah, you know, and support each other through some difficult times, you know, but support each other in the way that I think really only two people in recovery can, yeah, you know, we both experienced loss. You know, we both had to leave a relationship, a long term relationship, years, much longer. And there’s a lot of times that I think, if I wasn’t with someone, I don’t, you know, there was also in recovery. I don’t know if they would have understood, like, the reality is, is, like, you know, we’ve talked about it, maybe it’s that we wouldn’t pick up a drink. It could have been something else, yeah, or, you know, it, it, it, it still was a a hard place, you know, it was still a hard place that historically in the past is exactly a time that we would have abide. We would have abused it. We would have overdone it, yeah,
Daniel Leyten
yeah, and we Yeah, there’s definitely a grounding we have together in those moments. It’s,
Sunshine
you know, and I can’t say from the perspective of what it would be like to date somebody that was still, you know, actively using or somebody that you know, because I’m I’m blessed, and I think this is a huge part of why I get to experience all the magic in recoveries, because I have someone that truly is a partner, sure, together. Yeah. It’s beautiful. Well, we’ve been at this for a minute here. Dan, anything else that you want to say to wrap it up and share with folks as we explored love and relationships after alcohol, just
Daniel Leyten
looking forward to more of it, and we get to spend the day together today. I think it’s beautiful, I know. Hold up a little vacation from work and be just hanging out at the house all day, and my son’s over and Abby’s here. And, yeah, I’m so nice day today, I know.
Sunshine
And you’re going to make breakfast, yep? Excited for that. Some more coffee. Yeah, no, I’m, glad we touched on this topic. I think it’ll be a good one. And you know, I’ll just remind everyone you know, we’re sharing our experiences, and that doesn’t mean that you know yours can’t be different. I think the most important thing, though, is if you are stepping onto the path of recovery, or you’re in that path is you continue to navigate it how it best serves you.
Daniel Leyten
We’re looking forward to doing some of these out on out in the field, as they say, you can go to some, some of our favorite places, and record there too. Yes, that’ll be very maybe the first one will be the estates, the four estates,
Sunshine
yeah, that would be a fun one. The DIA will be a fun one. I’m thinking it might be, end up being the DIA, yeah, because we can do that. Well, yeah, yep. All right, beautiful. Well, my dear friends, thank you for joining us again today. I hope that you have a if you are in a cold weather and you’re hearing this, stay warm, because that’s what we’re going to go do, and until next time, Much Love from Dan and myself. Bye, everybody.
