Mr. Marshall has devoted over 50,000 hours to the study and practice of multiple dimensions of human potential and development. He received a classical education at a Jesuit Military Prep School, was accepted into engineering school while still a junior in prep school, and attended college on academic scholarship. He graduated college with a Bachelor of Science cum laude. While still an undergraduate, he began the study of “alternative” Arts and Sciences which today would be described as Transformational and Holistic. After 28 years of formal education, he had a long career as a Human Development Engineer. He has successfully treated and/or trained hundreds of clients, and is the inventor of Septemics and several consciousness-expanding systems. His areas of expertise include psychology, philosophy, theology, parapsychology, science, engineering, mathematics, law, literature, history, music, organization, metaphysics, military science, human potential, political science, physical culture and education.

Website: Septemics.com

In this transformative episode of “The Deepest Spirituality Podcast,” hosts Sunshine and Graham are joined by the insightful Jim Marshall, a pioneer in the realm of human development and the creator of the concept of Septemics. Together, they unravel the intricate tapestry woven from the threads of math, psychology, and spirituality. The discussion delves into the profound idea of collective consciousness and how Septemics serves as a guide for personal evolution and relationship enhancement. As Graham challenges the intersection of technology with spiritual growth, Jim elaborates on his intricate 35 scales, sharing from his wealth of experience as a human development engineer. This episode invites listeners to explore the profound potential of understanding human behavior and emotion through data analysis, with intriguing inquiries into potential new scales and anomalies posed by Graham. Tune in to expand your perspective and enrich your journey toward self-improvement and societal betterment.

Sunshine   08:26

Hey, everyone, welcome back to deepest spirituality with your co host sunshine, the pink haired psychic medium,

Graham  08:46

and Graham, the self proclaimed breaker of mold and build bridges. Yeah,

Sunshine   08:50

and we are going to take a quick moment again to remind you, if you’re listening to this for the first time, there are a bunch of other episodes that are out there. So you’re gonna want to go like, subscribe, do all that kind of great stuff. Listen to the other episodes. We’ve got an amazing guest on with us today. But we have amazing guests on almost every single time, so you’re not going to want to miss any of them. Before we get into today, though, we of course going to always as always start with a little bit of an opening ritual. So if you are listening and you’re able to close your eyes, I’m gonna encourage you to do that right now. If you’re driving, don’t close them, keep them open. But if you’re able to close your eyes, just start by taking a deep breath and then exhaling out. Just being very present in your own body right now, right here with us. Just listening. Just gifting yourself some time to hear today’s podcast. Listen to the amazing topic and I want you to imagine as you’re taking notice of your body right there. Just notice that the top of your head, the crown of your head, right white beam of light, extending upwards towards the sky. That white beam of light extends all the way upwards towards the sky up through your ceiling. Maybe wherever the building is that you’re in making. There’s a couple of more floors that has to go through, all the way up through the clouds even further reaching the top of the Earth’s atmosphere even beyond that, past the moon past all the planets. Almost as though you’re like using a scroll mouse, just keep scrolling further out. You see that white beam of light just extending farther and farther. It’s reached beyond the Milky Way, all the way beyond the cosmos all the way to the very edge. And just as you take notice of where it reaches, almost where you can hardly even imagine. You notice at the very end of that white beam of light as a white star. That star maybe it’s twinkling or blinking or turning around but that white star is representative with your higher self it’s you your higher self a part of that entire collective consciousness right there. At Star and as you notice your star you look across and you see another star not too far from you and that star is pink. And it’s even bouncing a little bit away waving and that star is representative of me, my higher self and just as you notice your star and my star there together you watch as a silver thread extends out from the middle of each one my star and extends towards yours and your star extends towards mine and they keep moving closer and closer together until all the way right in the very middle. Think they connect and that’s me and you’re now connected. And as you notice that connection, finally meet all of a sudden around you you notice all of the other stars, all of the other higher selves of every one of the individuals listening all of those that have listened before that will listen later. This vast, gigantic sea of stars. And as you take note of all the stars around you just in that exact moment you watch us each and every one of them connect to each other. This scene of connected stars is representative of our entire collective conscious another deep breath in and just notice that notice what it feels like to be connected to every single thing that exists. Every other individual, every other soul. Make that other deep breath in and exhale out as we do so. I want you to pay attention to your star again and that white beam of light as we go ahead and slide all the way back down and wait beam of light all the way down past into the cosmos past the milky way into it all the way past all the planets past Moon plus the atmosphere of the Earth, the clouds, whatever is above your head all the way back down into your body. And as you notice that we’re gonna go ahead and count down from three to one and bring everybody right back here with us. Three take a deep breath in exhale to open your eyes if they were closed then one all right, my dear friends I’m incredibly excited to welcome you back and to welcome our guest on for this week. Jim Marshall, Jim, as we start off every single one of our sessions. I would love if you tell our listeners what brought you here to the deepest spirituality podcast. What interests you and coming and joining us today in engineering?

Jim Marshall  14:47

Well, there are really two answers to that. One is that deepest spirituality is what I’m about what my life’s work is. So obviously the name it’s almost like saying my name to me, you know when you say that. The other thing is that I have I’m the discoverer of hitherto unknown natural phenomenon, which greatly aided the understanding of people from which I created a revolutionary practical philosophic system called Septemics. And published it in the book Septemics hierarchies of human phenomena. And I’m, I want people to take advantage of this because it really helps people. So that’s my mission. And anytime I can get people to learn about this and use it, I’m bringing good into the world.

Sunshine   15:43

I love that Tim so much. We’re gonna talk about that. I’m curious how you know, you said you’re the founder or the Discover you’ve created I’ve got to imagine that your journey has taken you a lot of places to have uncovered what we’re about to talk about here today. Can you share with our listeners a little bit of how your journey has been, you know, where how have you navigated, you know, these last? You know, couple of decades, I’m assuming, where you’ve now are sitting here and sharing all of this amazing discovery with these folks. How’s that journey brought here?

Jim Marshall  16:16

Well, I’ll be happy to answer that, but it’s more than a couple of decades. The first thing I should say is that I have no memory whatsoever. of a time when I was not compellingly interested in learning everything taught in every university. I was just born that way. I always wanted to know and I still do. I started school at the age of three, and I’ve been active in education to this very day. So that’s what eventually led me to becoming a polymath, which is the only really accurate description for what I am. Now, as far as figuring out Septemics The story really begins at age 16 When I was accepted into an engineering school, and of course at the time, I thought I was going to be engineering physical objects such as air foils and electrons and motors and things like that. But by the time I had my bachelor’s degree, it was clear that I wanted to engineer the human psyche. equalize it is the area in which the area of greatest mystery and unknown and more importantly, is the area in which we as a race, have failing miserably. 95% of the problems in industrialized society, because people don’t understand people. We’re not starving to death and dying of yellow fever and things like that. Now, the problem is that we don’t understand people can understand the wife and understand the husband and understand the boss. Don’t understand somebody who’s running for Congress or whatever. We don’t understand them. And that is why we are in the mess we’re in. Because you don’t understand. And this book solves that problem. Of course, 35 axes. So it’s a very expanded view of this problem. So to make a long story short, I had a long career as a human development engineer, using engineering principles. With clients one on one clients of every description for cumulatively many 1000s of hours, all of my clients improved as a result of our interaction. What I started to notice, incidentally, fairly early on, but I could predict the outcome of the session. Now, I never told this to anyone. I went out of my way to not tell anything to my clients. I was my skill was getting the person to figure it out himself, to lead him to an epiphany. So I started making notes. And I came to realize, as the decades go by, that the client would be at a specific level on a specific scale that I had previously observed. And as a result of our work, the point would go to that next level. Now this happened 1000s and 1000s of times and each time it did, it verified my hypothesis. So I’m using the scientific method, just incidentally, as a result of my observation and my notes, and the session itself would verify what I know again, I didn’t discuss this with anybody so nobody had any idea about any of this. Now, by about 1995. A couple of things happened. One is that I had about 32 scales of varying lengths, between three and seven. The other is that one day I was I had one scale, in particular, that I had, for many decades by then, that I knew is correct, had six levels, and I had been using it successfully on a daily basis. Well, one day I was pondering a difficult client and I realized that that client was a level on that scale. That I had not previously observed. In other words, this scale that I had been using for decades, I have a seventh level. Not one I showed this level was was obvious to me where to insert it. And when I inserted the seventh level into the sixth level scale, the scale manifested mathematically. Meaning all of this data jumped out at me. Now, just to clarify, for those of you who are allergic to math, the whole point of math is that you start with a formula or an equation and you coax data out of it. That is how Einstein found equals MC squared. Everybody in the math and physics community knows exactly the steps he took to get to that birth changing formula. So that’s what happened here. This data jumped out at me. Having taken 26 semesters of math and loved every minute of it. I recognize this. I said, Whoa, I found something here, whatever this is, it has to be natural law. Because there’s mathematics embedded in it. So then I thought, Hmm, I wonder how many of these other skills are actually seventh level skills that had not been developed all the way because I wasn’t developing anything. I was just helping my clients and making notes. So knowing what I was looking for, I inspected these remaining skills. And in a short period of time, each of them went to seven levels. And as it did, it manifested mathematically toward a short period of time I have 32 skills. of seven levels that all have mathematics embedded in them. And I looked at this as a whole and said, This looks to me like a new subject that can really help people. Jump on so. Yes,

Graham  22:27

sir. Real quick so when you say it’ll help me to follow along with with your vernacular a bit is when you say helping clients, like well, how is it like what is it that you’re doing with using your information and what was the main me rephrase it? What is it you were trying to help your your clients accomplish? That led you to using this information to help them you know, achieve their goals? I think maybe I missed that part.

Jim Marshall  22:51

Okay, so that that’s really somewhat beyond the scope of Septemics. But, okay, so the client would come to me with something, it didn’t matter. Usually they had a laundry list of things. Can’t go along with the waste drinking problem. Headaches. Okay, so

Graham  23:10

what my problem is coming to you with general life problems and saying, Hey, I’m looking for some answers. Right. Okay, cool. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah.

Jim Marshall  23:18

And I would help them find this 100% of the time. So guy would get an epiphany as a result of our work. I would work with him for some period, you know, like, he’d come in and say, I can’t get along with my wife, baba, baba, baba, baba. And we’d work on that. And then he’d say, oh, no, I see what’s going on. See, have an epiphany. And then he would be happy with that and then we would go on to something else. So getting back to how I discovered Septemics. So when I had these 32 skills with seven levels each I realized, wait a minute, I could also helping people by the hundreds, which is what I have been doing as human development engineer, to helping people by the millions. If I put this in a book and get it out so people could use it. So I have to write a book. So the first version of the book was completed in December of 95. And I then sent it in transcript form to colleagues of mine, all of whom had graduate degrees in various subjects, and they all responded in a short period. Of Time very positively. I didn’t leave the middle I just said, now take a look at this. And they all said something like, wow, this is awesome. Of course they all had slightly different responses, but had very positive responses. And that told me that this was exactly what I thought it was, which is a new subject could really help people. So then I said, Well, I’m gonna have to work on this. I spent the next 25 years of my life working on this book. Because you have to realize first I had to discover the phenomena and I pretty much already explained how that was done. Although, I did find three more scales as I was writing the book. Then, I had to take this data and use it to craft a workable philosophic system. I have to understand that as an engineer I’m only interested in fact and results. That’s how we are now, therefore, I had to craft something that would work all the time for everyone who used it. That took 20 years because merely having the scale is not enough. I had to have a full understanding of what this was so that I could present it to a person and how would the person look at it and say, oh, yeah, I get this, which is what happens. So took 20 years to do that. But the most time consuming part of this was something that sunshine asked me about which is expressing this in a way that would make sense to the average reader. And I know I succeeded with that, because some version of this book has existed now for 28 years and I have been seeing the results people get this. This is not some obscure woowoo thing that requires inspiration or intuition or anything like that. This is a philosophical science. And when people look at it, they get it. So Jim, how would you

Sunshine   26:49

how would you define Septemics? And how, like, what what’s the definition of it because you’ve, you’ve been talking about it you’ve been talking about discovering it, you know, coming up with it, but how would you define it

Jim Marshall  27:00

Septemics is a philosophical science, based on the fact that many phenomena related to humans occurs in a sequence of seven levels. Literally the word Septemics means overall pertaining to seven Septemics comprises a collection of scales or sequences, each of which breaks down various human phenomena into a sequence of seven steps that are very precise and they’re in a specific order. There are 35 Six scales, each of which is unique and together they span the spectrum of human experience, by which I mean any problem, Dilemma situation difficulty in the realm of human activity that a person has can successfully be analyzed by one or more of the skills usually more than one. So this is very user friendly.

Sunshine   27:58

So that’s what I have. Do you have maybe a story I know you’ve you’ve been touching on a couple of them and have talked about the benefit, you know, is it was Graham kind of had asked about like, how you’ve helped your clients, but can you have a story of where you’ve actually seen the benefit, like, you know, a use case, or something of that where you could kind of talk us and our listeners through how somebody came to you how you understood, you know, you know what the scales were and like, how, how did they receive the benefit? How did they How did how did their change in life come about because of this scientific philosophy?

Jim Marshall  28:41

Well, first of all, to answer your question directly ah, and then I’ll go into analogies and stories. I wrote this book to help people, I have a lifetime of helping people. Each of these 35 scales provides the user with an infallible way of determining the salutary Enos or many beneficial myths of any group, individual or activity. If the group individual activity moves the person up the scales, it’s beneficial or positive. If it moves them down. It’s detrimental and negative. So I’m giving you a specific yardstick by which to assess human affairs, which is an entirely new idea. More importantly, just finding out what level you or another person is at on any scale is by itself enlightening and beneficial. Every time you correctly spot a scale whether it’s for yourself, or of another person, you have an epiphany of some kind say, oh, no, I understand why my parents get along. Straight here. But what about what about what about? That’s one of the ways that you know you found the right level, because you have a realization if you don’t have a realization, you found the wrong level. So finally, once you know the actual level of a person, on any scale, you can improve that person by moving them up one level at a time. This is actually an advantage because I’m telling you exactly what the next thing is, that’s going to happen to you if you succeed, which is the next level up or if you fail, which is the next level down, which is like a crystal ball. So all of these advantages that I just articulated, represent major steps forward for society. Each of these scales is an axis against which to evaluate your behavior and combine them power one to understand predict. And manage human affairs, to a degree hitherto unattainable by most. Now, I’ll give you some examples of how this works. So let’s say you have a girlfriend who’s having romance problems, right? Your girlfriend Betty, every time you see she says, Oh, I don’t know what I’m going to do. About my husband. He got drunk. He yelled at me. He didn’t come home, pop it up at about five. She’s complaining all the time. But seriously, you want to help her because she’s your friend. You say very clearly, Seamus. And you open the book to the scale of relationships. And you show it to her? And he’s gonna say something like, You mean there’s a scale of relationships. You say yes. This relationship that you’ve been complaining to me about four year, where is it on this scale? And she is going to want to know that because you are opening a door for her. Now what’s gonna happen next is in a matter of seconds, and I talked about 1520 25 seconds, she’s gonna find a bracket. At first blush, she’s going to look at the scale and she’s gonna say, Well, I can see right away. It’s definitely not one, two or three because we’re having a lot of trouble and that’s the top of the scale. And it’s definitely not seven that’s, that’s below us. So it’s got to be like four or five or six. See if you got it down to three. From which facility. Can you say good? Now why don’t you just read the text? And then you can get it exactly. Country is going to want to do that, too. She’s already having some insight. So she visits that and you can help her the way a tutor would help somebody. So then she comes back and looks at it again says Well, now that I read it. See she knows this relationship she’s been living through this for a year. She looked at his up, I can see we’re at level five. No wonder we’re having trouble x near the bottom of the scale, you see, and he will have some specific capacity. Well, this explains why Joe does this, this, this and this and then you say, that’s great. Now you can move from five up to four. You can yes, it tells you in the book how to do that. But before you do that, let me show you something else. And you open the book to the scan of sexuality. And she looks at it the same process is going to a person look at it. She said You mean there’s a scale of sexuality. You say yes. You don’t have to tell me if you don’t want to for your own illumination. Where are you on this scale? And she’s gonna want to know that because she’s having trouble in this area, you see? So she looks at it. And matter of seconds you’ll find a bracket. She’ll say something like, Well, definitely not one or two. I don’t even understand those. And it’s not six or seven. That’s got nothing to do with us. It’s got to be like you know me 345 Okay, good. So read the text and then you can get to exactly and she’s probably don’t want to do that. So she reads it. She goes back to squat. I can see I’m at level four. And she’ll have an epiphany that explains why this this, this and this. And she might also say and Fred, my husband, he’s a level five. This explains a lot. We’re conflicting work different levels. So I already know if two people are not compatible on that scale, they cannot have a successful romantic relationship. You don’t have to get the same level but you have been a compatible level. So she’s already having insights. See, and and you said you know, you can move up to the next higher level and you can help Joe move to the next higher level to I can yeah tells you in the book how to do that. But before you do that, let me show you something else. You show the scale of allegiance. Well, anytime a relationship deteriorates, it’s always because allegiance deteriorates. Right. So she’s got this relationship going. But meanwhile, she’s not happy. So she cheats on him. Right? fooling around with some other guy. Well, that happens all the time. That’s a deterioration of allegiance. Because they got together because they were intimate. You see, so it’s deteriorated now. So she’ll go through the same process. We’ll find the bracket she reads it she comes back because what I can see I’m at level three. I can see where I have fallen down to level three from where I was at a higher level before and, and you can say, Well, what about Joe what level is he at? See? And then she’ll have a realization and you go through the same thing? Well, if you move up to a higher level, you will have a better relationship. Now she’s gonna want to take your book and go and do this now. So I could keep doing this what I’ve been doing for the last 10 minutes with six for eight or 10 More scales, because in something like romantic relationship, it’s complex. So there are going to be many scales that are going to have a bearing on this, the scale of control, the scale, the motivation, the scale of basic purposes, the scale of the justification, center, etc, etc. And so she could go through and analyze this whole thing she might do 20 scales, and by the time she finishes there, she’s going to have this all figured out. Because every time she’s Yeah, is there

Sunshine   36:26

another you know, because I think I have an understanding or I should say, I have a picture in my head of these scales. Is there another like that? Is there anything you can reference that would somebody else might have a be able to like reference it too? Right? Because when I think of this scale, I’m picturing like the emotion scale, you know, how have you ever seen the emotion scale of like the highest vibrational emotions like 1000 And it’s like joy, or you can go all the way down into like, guilt and fear and shame and that’s like an like a zero. So I keep picturing when you’re talking about a scale. Is there anything that people might be able to reference that, you know, they can imagine in their head or they could picture anybody that’s listening? You know, they don’t have the book they can’t look at it is there something that this would be similar to or anything that they would be familiar with?

Jim Marshall  37:17

Okay, so I have two responses to that. One is that what I think would really be helpful if I tell you the names of the scales, because then you would see exactly what subject matter is covered. And each of these 35 skills has seven levels, you see. So there’s a lot of opportunity here for insight to all this data, because you have hundreds of different ways of getting at this. But the other thing I want to say to you is this. This is not derivative of something else. This is an entirely new subject. I discovered something here. Now I tried for years to put this into the context. of something else. It cannot be done. It’s like trying to get an elephant into a Volkswagen.

Sunshine   38:15

Okay, baby elephant I get in.

Jim Marshall  38:18

Okay, so what I’m saying is, and I tell this to everybody, if you try to study this from the framework of something else, like it’s psychology, or sociology, or whatever, you will not understand it. Because it’s not any of those things. It’s an entirely new subject. And that’s part of the benefit from this set. I’m giving you a whole new paradigm by which to analyze your life. Yes, Graham.

Graham  38:50

I was gonna say Right, so not to say no to how it’s used, right? It’s what your philosophy does. It’s very simply put, if I’m here is helping subjective data to become information to people. Right, in a very is that is again, I’m not trying to oversimplify what you do, right? But that as a user, right, that’s what you’re saying is that you’ve got these already these thoughts, these ideas. Let me help you to take them out. Put some objectivity behind them, put some scale put some math in that and let’s see, you know, what’s really what or am I not? Am I missing a piece?

Jim Marshall  39:24

I’m not entirely sure what you’re asking. But let me try to explain it this way. These skills exist the same way that the ZACHARY And theorem exists. The same way that the three laws of motion exists. The same way that the periodic table exists, has nothing to do with subject. Subject. I’m very

Graham  39:44

familiar with the Intelligent Design governing the universe that all of these things have found a way to identify what’s occurring and put you know, the patterns behind it. So I don’t discount that whatsoever. Right. I absolutely believe that, that you’ve identified a pattern within the intelligent design that you’re speaking to, and so I’m trying to wrap my mind around that and how to kind of think about it. So yeah, yeah, cool beans. Thank you for your patience. And

Jim Marshall  40:09

so to finish answering Sunshines question, what I’d like to do now is tell you the names of the 35 skills, because then you know exactly what subject matter is covered in the book. The 35 axes takes about a minute to do this. Okay. May I do that? Yeah, go for it. Okay. Okay. So, there are 24 individual scales, meaning they apply primarily to an individual and there are living group skills, they primer apply primarily to. So these are the individual scales, the scale of basic purposes, the scale of personal instruments, the scale of choice, the scale of permeation the scale of thought, the scale of identity, the scale of evaluation, scale of motivation, the scale of control, the scale of stopping, the scale of scholarship, the scale of literacy, the scale of human ability, the scale of memory, the scale of spiritual identity, the scale of mental deletion, the scale of aberration, the scale of physical fitness, the scale of justification, the scale of belief, the scale of equanimity, the scale of attack, the scale of conflict, the scale of reaction, and these are the group scales, the scale relationships, the scale of life spheres, the scale of government, the scale of civilization, the scale of survival, the scale of management, the scale of exchange, the scale of communication, the scale of allegiance, and the scale of sexuality and the scale of politics. Now, what I can tell you is that any one of these scales by itself, could dramatically change the life of the viewer. And I’ll tell you an example of how that would be. We have the scale of motivation. One of the most important things to know is motivation. That’s how the police solve crimes. They look for somebody with a motive. If you don’t have a motive, they eliminate you as a suspect. So that’s really important to know, Lourdes, you’re dealing with somebody, what is this cause motive? Why does this guy want to date me? Why does this guy want want to work for me, you see, so it’s really important to know motive. So you could say, What is my motive toward my mother? What is my motive toward my father, but as my motive toward my boss, what is my motive toward my next door neighbor, and you could do the reverse factor? What is my daughter’s motivation toward me, but as my friend’s motivation toward me, but as my uncle’s motivation toward me, every time you spot that you have an insight? Oh, I see. This explains why my uncle behaves this way. He has this motivation. See, because remember, every time you spot it correctly, there’s an insight so you could use this one scale, hundreds or 1000s of different ways, just this one scale, because you’re using it to analyze all of your relationships, incoming and outgoing both. So that alone could give you a lot of understanding of what’s going on all the people in your life. What 335 axes Do you see so there? You don’t have to limit yourself to one.

Sunshine   43:24

Do you think so? You said, I think you said there was 32 when you started writing the book. Three more as you continued writing that book? I mean, is this something like you’re gonna find more of these scales? Do you think more of these things are going to start popping themselves out? You know, I mean, have you had other folks, you know, this has been out for 25 years and it’s a fascinating, fascinating new subject, right? I mean, it’s something that so I would imagine, folks, you’ve got folks that are following this, right? And like trying to extend it’s it’s, you know, philosophy and it’s learning I mean, that’s the kind of the cool thing about philosophies, people try to keep spinning off of it. Where do you think is going like, where’s it? Where’s it going next, you know, doesn’t have the ability to evolve. First

Jim Marshall  44:13

of all, it’s possible that there are other scales. On fact, I would go beyond that there. There are likely other scales that I haven’t defined yet. Although you have to realize that I started observing this many years before I even thought about writing a book. I kind of explained that to you. So try to live with this, living with this for a long time. And I actually did talk to some colleagues about this. One guy actually came, he said, You know, I think I found a scale, and I analyzed it, and it wasn’t a Septemics scale. I mean, it was a nice effort, but it did not fit the parameters of a Septemics scale. So yes, somebody might come up with more scales. But I think more to the point is, there is far more than you need in this book to straighten out your life. You have so many angles and ways of using this, that you have this wealth of information. So talking about other scales is kind of superfluous. But go ahead, man.

Graham  45:29

So let me flip in the other way. To your point, right. You’ve analyzed people, you know, there’s people are out you know, inside of a box or whatever. So what would it actually what would you have to actually see in the data or what would have to be unique about somebody or some thing for you to uncover that like any you know, UD for you to define a new um, says actually the right word or new scale?

Jim Marshall  45:55

Well, I don’t define it, I just observe it. Okay. I you know, it’s like this. You know, I was walking along a lonely road man, and I stopped and I found $100 bill on the road and pick it up, put it in my pocket. That’s that’s how I found this. Okay. It just fell out in front of me as a result of my work. And because of my Polymathic credentials, I was able to see it for what it was, and do something with it to make it useful to people. So

Graham  46:23

yeah, so what would you have to see or maybe in a better way, what would you have to see or experience that wouldn’t be able to be accounted for in your existing parameters?

Jim Marshall  46:38

To understand question,

Graham  46:40

well, like you, so I guess the only way to break outside of the eight. If I’m understanding this correctly, you based on what you’ve you’ve identified people over many decades, and you’ve got countless data to create these things. So therefore, in order for something new to emerge, right, something literally new what kind of have to emerge, right? So there would have to be something that’s kind of breaking out of, you know, traditional norms, standards, control limits, whatever to to stand outside. Of the date, I guess, is, is my point, right? For something else to pop up to you. You’d have to have to be something that’s that an anomaly in the data because you’ve been looking at it for so long. And unless people change, like to your point, it’s going to be pretty hard for something new to kind of pop up. Right? So yeah, you’re very thorough. And everything that’s been done so far,

Jim Marshall  47:25

right, right. I am the the irritatingly cerebral person which makes me a good engineer. And that’s why I was successful in helping people. I knew exactly what I was. Doing. I this was not counseling, this was engineering and to explain it to you. Basically, what I used was Socratic dialogue, aided by biofeedback. Now, the whole biofeedback thing is a whole university in and of itself. I was kind of a pioneer in mastering and understanding biofeedback and using it in conjunction to really help the person and we could get into a whole discussion about that, but it really has nothing to do with Septemics.

Sunshine   48:16

Well, I’m curious just since you brought it up, if it has nothing to do good, where are you using that data to identify these scales though? Like as you were looking, where was that where some of that data was showing you that these things is

Jim Marshall  48:31

or is this what happened was I would be in a session with somebody, right? And because I did this for 40 years, I got, I had a big database, and I was very skilled at what I was doing. And so I started to see patterns. Oh, this guy went from this to this and this other guy wants to this to this. They don’t even know one another. So there’s something they’re seeing that write that down.

Sunshine   49:00

And this and this to this you’re not it was was like whatever their their personal type of experience. You know, you gave the example of the the woman was cheating. She decided to stop cheating, right? She went from a cheater to a not cheater. Is it those types of examples that you were noting? Or is it more like you were literally collecting the additional pieces of like the bio feedback or anything of that and you were noting the differences on those? That’s where I’m curious like your data sets. You know, were you looking at the observational data just of the human and the sessions that you were having, like as a, you know, this engineer just taking note to say, you know, Jim, just you know, admitted that, you know, he cheated on his partner and this is not what he wanted to be doing and now we’re you know, he’s gonna work to move to another scale, or was it literally like, numbers around, you know, something else that you’re measuring? That to me is where I’m fascinated how the data showed itself to you in that way.

Jim Marshall  49:59

Right. Let me let me answer that question in a general way that I think will help you. There is there is a prominent datum in engineering that says 90% of finding the right answer is asking the right question. The reason why Einstein found the theory of relativity, when nobody else did was that he will ask the right question. The reason that Newton found the three laws of motion before anybody else, he’s asked the right question. Okay. So as an engineer, I was helping people but as I was typing them, I would say, Hmm, here’s the pattern here. This is just like Fibonacci, Fibonacci, right. They’re all these living creatures that are built on Fibonacci numbers. Like if you get a sunflower, you count the seeds. One way to transfer the natural number. You can have the other way. It’s another Fibonacci number. pine cones, seashells, they have Fibonacci numbers, right. These creatures don’t know anything about numbers. Right? They don’t have brains. But still, that’s how they build themselves. So Fibonacci came along, and he saw this data. And he said, You know, there’s something here. There’s some kind of a formula or something underlying this, and he’s figured it out. Now, those of us in the math will all know that formula now. And so we know this a bit, actually numbers to infinity. But he was the guy who said, There’s something here and he looked at it, and he studied it, and he was able to work out a formula that explained all of this. See, and so he would get this number. Oh, yeah. Here’s the pine cone. It goes that number this way, and this is Southern over here, and it goes that see, so he worked out the front and it gave it to us. That is essentially what happened here, the same process. Just like when Dimitri Mendeley have found the periodic table now, before Dmitri Mendeleev, there was chemistry, but he revolutionized it. By creating the periodic table he made it easier to understand, easier to teach, easier to learn. And so the periodic table has been become a staple of science ever since. And it’s in every classroom and every textbook in science. And we all know it’s correct. In fact, I would say any scientist would tell you that any sentient race in the universe is going to have the periodic table. On some other galaxy, there’s some planet with smart guys, and they’re going to have the periodic table because it tells you how the matter is laid out. Hydrogen is here. Helium is fear. Lithium is here, and it goes on and on and on, vertically and horizontally. Okay. It’s natural law. That’s I did essentially the same thing that Mendeley have did in constructing this. So he looked in the world of chemistry, and he said, You know, there’s some kind of a pattern here. Let me see any wrote them down. Yeah, yeah. And see, he’s got periods. He’s got these different and they fall into categories. The metals are over here. The noble gases are over here. There’s a pattern. And he wrote that down and say you

Sunshine   53:43

you made a comment earlier, and I’m just I mean, just curious. You know, that you that there may be some other scales, but you haven’t divined them yet you chose the word divine. Right. And so how how you know, divine typically is you know, indicative of like, a divine source, you know, something providing you the insight providing the information. So, how has that how do you, you know, maybe why did you choose to use the word divine and what’s your you know, kind of perspective around that.

Jim Marshall  54:19

I think you don’t have a full understanding of the word divine divine in the way I use that means find out. It’s not saying that there’s some superior being that’s telling you what it is. It’s just means that you ascertain that Divine is a synonym of ascertain. If you go to Roget and look it up. You’ll see.

Sunshine   54:46

So when you’re using the word when you said the word divine, you’re just saying, understand, like understanding it, just knowing it.

Jim Marshall  54:53

ascertaining is the right way to look at it. It’s just seeing what’s there. So there was a point when Fibonacci said, oh, yeah, I see. There’s just a number sequence. And there’s a certain way that it constructs and it creates these numbers and it’s part of the universe, it’s built in there. So that’s essentially the same process that happened. The same, the same way that Tesla found your alternating current motor. I don’t know how much you know about the history that but we had the direct current motor, which has major problems with it. Okay, especially when you try to transmit any distance. And he said, Well, no, we didn’t. If we had an alternating current motor, it would change polarity periodically, and then we wouldn’t have that problem. And he saw it in his head. He saw the alternating current. This was all very well documented from Tesla. He saw it in his head, and then he built it in three dimensions.

Graham  56:05

So I’m gonna Oh, sorry. I just received we spent time talking about the questions and so I think there’s probably some some good insights there. So, Jim, when were there certain questions that you start when you started this, are there certain questions you are trying to answer? And then my follow up to that would be do you feel like you’ve answered them or how have you feel kind of progress? Do you feel like you’ve made on you know, answering that initial question or questions you were trying to answer?

Jim Marshall  56:32

Well, the question that was always paramount in my mind is how can I help this person? People would come to me with problems of all kinds, you name it. So as an engineer, I was in this session to use what I knew to help this person. And I succeeded over and over and over, but it was always a challenge because the fact that somebody is going to come to somebody else for help, means that this person has been struggling with this for some time. I mean, I had a guy who was a drunk. Nice Guy, smart guy, but he drank too much. So he came to me see, and I helped him unravel. This thing. And I can tell you 1000 stories like cat about that doesn’t really matter what it was, but that was what I was preoccupied with. Because an engineer is somebody who uses no facts. To resolve specific problems in the real world.

Graham  57:38

Oh, there we go. There we go. So what is the specific problem in the real world that you are trying to solve and how will you measure to understand if you have solved it and or your contribution to solving it, just trying to speak your language that challenge you?

Jim Marshall  57:50

Well, a lot of that goes into the biofeedback. So I’ll talk about that for a minute. But some of this you may know but I’ll just explain it for the viewers. Every time you think a thought. The electromagnetic field around your body changes so when you think father, it changes can you think Mother it changes then you think tomato, it changes. All of this can be reflected on a meter. Because what happens is when that field changes, the resistance in your body changes. Well, we know how to measure resistance. That’s no big deal that’s been around for 100 years. So you just hook the guy up to the meter. And as he as he thinks he gets different responses on the meter. Now, what I found is that different categories have specific responses. So for example, when a client would come to me, the first thing I would do is I would have a long interview. I didn’t charge them for that. It’s just for me to find out who this person is and how I’m going to help them right. So I’ll ask him things like, how’s your relationship with the family? How to get along with your son? How’s your work, you know, because I’m just trying to get data right. Now the guy is on the meter while we’re doing this. So I said to the guy, how to go with your mother, boom, two meter reacts. Ah, there’s something here. Now, it might continue to react as he talks about her. Now, when we get into the session, and I would say to him, Tell me about your mother. I would get a specific type of a pattern on the meter. The biofeedback would tell me what was going on. In other words, if he’s upset about her, that’s one kind of a reaction. If he’s worried about her that’s another kind of reaction. If he’s keeping secrets from her, that’s another kind of a reaction. So I would know exactly what was going on in his mind. So let’s say I get an indication that it has a secret and I would say well, did you were you keeping a secret from your mother? And the needle goes kaboom. And I would say to him, you know, if he says no, I’d say well, you know, we have a read here. What is this? What is his reading on today? And he would think, and as you would think the same media reaction would appear as he thought about it, the same one. So he would think, Oh, I was triggered from my mother, boom, see, and I would say that that’s it. What are you thinking? And say, you know, I forgot about this when I was 30. And I love it, I want to say, so now we’re unburdening this stuff. And essentially, what that that’s

Sunshine   1:01:01

what I that’s what I was trying to get at is what kind of data so you not only are you collecting the notes that you’re actually taking through the sessions, you also have these individuals. So you had this beautiful combination of qualitative and quantitative data that you were capturing throughout all of these decades, these 1000s of folks that you were sitting with, right, so yeah, that to me is is what is the power behind what you’ve been able to do is the fact that as as as this human development engineer, you were not just doing the, you know, no knock on talk therapy, right, but you weren’t just doing the conversations and just trying to look at the qualitative information. You are capturing that quantitative so you could see the shifts and the adjustments that’s that was what I was trying to get at when I was asking you, so I appreciate you sharing that and asking that question, Grant. I

Jim Marshall  1:01:54

was not a counselor. I was a human development engineer. This was very precise. I could go to the whole theory of the mind and some of that is discussed in my book, but it’s sort of gets off the path of what we’re trying to explain here with Septemics because it is lots of theory behind this, but you might help. Oh, sorry,

Graham  1:02:18

I thought you’re passing my bed. But let

Jim Marshall  1:02:20

me let me just try to wrap this part. of the discussion up by saying this as a human development engineer, I understand humans. The way an aeronautical engineer understands airplanes. The way an automotive engineer understands automobiles, the way a chemical engineer understands chemicals, right? These guys have their areas of specific talent. This was mine. So I brought all this other Polymathic information, my knowledge of literature, my knowledge and psychology, my knowledge of politics, military science, all these things, had, in my mind, informed me in a way that I could have some insight into what he was saying. And so I would just ask the right question. That’s the key. Because simply having the guy find out that he has trouble with his mother. Well, he already knows that to say, but for me to say, well see if I didn’t get a reaction on problem, but then I get a reaction on secret. That tells me where to dig. See, it’s just like, when you’re digging for oil, right? You have geophysicist to tell you. This is where to dig through oil, which is engineering. So that’s how that worked. Now what what was happening is, as I was doing this I observed patterns, just like Fibonacci, see where the guy would be in a certain level. And he would go to this other level, and that when he got to that level, he would have an epiphany and some kind of a release in his mind where he would let go of this negative energy. And I would see that on the biofeedback. So the bio, biofeedback would go the opposite way when that happens. When we say, You know what, I just realized my father reminds me of Jack Kennedy, or whatever it is that he’s thinking, you know, could be anything, but then the meter would verify that and so I would know, okay, we got to the end of the cycle. He would be happy, I’d say okay, we end off on this. Yeah. Okay, good. Let’s go to something else. And it might not be necessary. We’ve been in that session. So that’s how that works. And I would just see these patterns that the guy would do this, and then we do that, and then we’ll do that. And I would see this over and over and over. 1000s and I just wrote it all down. So I was working on this for at least 30 years before I had any clue that this was going to lead me into a new subject. I was just being a dutiful and meticulous engineer in making notes so that I can help the next client.

Sunshine   1:05:30

You’ve you’ve touched on a couple a couple of times, but I thought, you know, might be helpful because, you know, I think Graham and I are navigating this topic for the first time and it’s it’s fascinating. You better darn well believe I’m going to continue exploring paths today. But what is what are the the like the the misconceptions what are what are these things that you know you’ve you’ve said it I want to be very I want you to be very clear to these readers, though, like what is this not like what do you what do people what what do you want people to know that are the biggest misconceptions around what you’re discussing and talking about? Because the the one thing to me and I think this is the reason you can clarify me if I’m wrong, you don’t want to tie the biofeedback thing is is because you don’t need that. To understand that this is Septemics Once you get into it, right and so maybe maybe touch on some of the misconceptions that you know, that might help people feel a bit more comfortable navigating this topic or stepping into it for the first time.

Jim Marshall  1:06:31

Well, in a sense, I did all the heavy lifting in figuring out these 35 scales. So the problem of misconceptions has been solved, because I’m giving you the data. Just like you know when I as a young mathematician got the Pythagorean Theorem, I thought, Oh, she this, this is great. I can use this. And I use that. As I went further and further and further into mathematics. I could always use photography and theorem whenever I wanted. I just pulled it Wait a minute. This is a right triangle. Look at the Pythagorean Theorem, we calculate it well we have the number now. Now we know the number three. So that’s sort of like normal stem thinking, you know, science, technology, engineering, mathematics, thinking. But I’ve kind of by writing this all down. I’m giving you the gradients of life. Each one of these scales is a roadmap for success in the corresponding area.

Graham  1:07:40

So your belief then is that if everybody in the world just follows what you have to say the world is a better place or is there still room for individual thought or individuality or how does that play into this?

Jim Marshall  1:07:49

This is just a tool doesn’t

Graham  1:07:52

sound like it. It sounds like it is the way it’s figured out mathematically. And so there is no additional humans are just these little beat creatures that are going to go in these little patterns. So don’t even try to explore it for yourself. Just follow my system. And like so that’s what I say like how do you how do you address that to somebody who say how do I take exploring life and going about that without and not have this kind of take away from that experiential learning? That’s against me, but I’m trying to say how do you work that into experiential learning?

Jim Marshall  1:08:23

Septemics is what it is. It’s a it’s a book that helps you. I you Yeah. So

Graham  1:08:33

according to you that’s out of that. Is that a proven Pythagoras theorem that it improves everybody? I’m just pointing that out, and they stem format, that’s all

Jim Marshall  1:08:40

Yeah, I did not say it improves everybody. It doesn’t. This book is for anyone who can read English reasonably well and wants to improve himself or others. Now, I actually calculated that’s about half the human race. The other half is not interested in that. The other half consists of Psychopaths, sociopaths, serial killers, corrupt politicians, professional criminals. Terrorists, torturers. Crazy people. Morons ignoramuses, there’s all kinds of people who are not the public first book. But if you want to improve yourself, and or improve others, this is a tool you can use. Now it’s just this just like, it’s just like, before we had electric cars. We had a whole industry for over a century of gas driven cars, right? I’m not knocking gas driven cars, but some people got the idea which Elon Musk push forward with his genius and his money to create Tesla, and now it’s mainstream. And he predicts that it is a more efficient engineering system, and eventually it will overtake gas powered vehicles. And I think he’s right now, I know this from my study of engineering and how these cars work, but most people still want gas cars. They’re having a lot of trouble selling these cars. I don’t know if you know what’s going on in that industry. But this we’re having a lot of trouble selling these because people that there are problems with those cars, that they have a limited workability you know, you can’t get in it and drive 1000 miles because you’re gonna run out of electricity and you have to have places to get the chart. So, you know, there are problems that need to be solved. But I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with gas cars. there’s anything wrong with electric cars, we’re just, it’s another tool. Okay? Like for example, Elon has faced X he’s using reaction engines to make billions of dollars by putting things in space. I don’t know if he’s not aware of it. But the United States mastered anti gravity in 1954. So long T TR three B is an anti gravity vehicle. That’s been around since the 80s. There are fleets of them. There are pictures of them on the internet. They do not use reaction engines at all. It’s all I can tell you the exact engineering how they work, but most people don’t know about this, because the government doesn’t want you to know about it. So they suppress it. But still they’re around people see them 1000s of people have seen these triangular ships that make no noise except a slight hum with a go oh, that’s the lucky TR three b Okay, so he’s still using this antiquated system of rocketry. I’m not criticizing, I’m just saying it’s a different system. So there are many ways to help people. If you need a therapist, go to a therapist. You know if you need to go want to go to a priest and confess do that. I’m not knocking any of that. I’m just saying, this is a system that I know works. And the reason I know it works is because I’ve been watching people use this for 28 years since 1995. And I watch people get this book and say, oh, yeah, that’s just cool. And these are not necessarily people towards the degrees. They’re just people who can read English and they want to improve themselves of others. Okay, so somebody like Vito Genovese, who was a psychopathic murderer, he wouldn’t read this book. And even if he did read it, he wouldn’t understand it. And even if he did understand it, he wouldn’t use it because it’s contrary to His way of life. So it doesn’t apply to him. But to somebody like you, you probably would get this and say, Yeah, this makes sense. I see. This explains why boppity boppity bop. And if you allow me, I’ll give you some examples. To give you some context of how this is works in a very real way.

Graham  1:13:22

Yeah, no, I think I appreciate that clarification. And I also think that in the sake of the spirits, and we taught my engineering a lot and by the way, I believe in you know, I actually really do appreciate that approach of trying to add objectivity, this stuff, because not everything works for everybody. And if we’re all going to advance as a society, we’ve got to have different ways to try to get to the same place right? So I do very much see a very bigger vision and everything of what you’re what you’re discussing. So I do want to verify so would you Is it safe to say that from the spiritual aspect, right? Because you said deepest spirituality is kind of what’s guiding you right? That part of that feeling of how you’re using your engineering to help in a spiritual space is providing people to help the tools to uncover their trauma, Shadow Work other types of things, to work through it and then in addition to that, that hey, the better the people understand themselves and can better understand each other then know that’s going to be less conflict, you know, which then leads to just better harmony and we get along better we can use our energies to propel ourselves versus on all the symptoms. And things like that. Right. So oh, a cool, no, I think I’m glad. Yeah. So please continue with what you were going to

Jim Marshall  1:14:31

exactly let me let me just say one sentence to bring this into focus. And then I’ll go into analogies so it’s easier to understand. The data in this book, are vital for every person, and can help you to achieve your goals faster and easier by explaining what might otherwise seem to be inexplicable or random. So, you go around and talk to dice, you know, and you’ll find most of them will tell you they don’t understand women. Fast majority, right? So you say you know what, read this book, it’ll help you. So the guy reads the blue says, Oh, now I see one. A mother does this. Now I see why my girlfriend does that. Now I see why I couldn’t have a relationship with Gertrude, Poppy by proxy. So he’s understanding women. See? So that’s now let me give you a far fetched analogy of really how this works. So let’s say you have a home and it’s got a garden, and you want to invite me over to show off your garden. He said, Jim, come over, and I’ll show you my garden. Because I know a lot about flowers and gardens and such. Have you had many, and I say great, I’ll come over. So I show up at your house, and you take me into your garden. I don’t even know if you have a garden but just hypothetically, you take me into your garden, and you show me show me and I look around right you don’t tell me anything. You just say here’s my garden. What’s gonna happen is I’m gonna look oh, he’s got hydrangeas. He’s got irises, he’s got chrysanthemums. He’s got roses, he’s got tulips, peonies, forget me nots. Now the reason I can do that is that I know a lot about flowers. Okay? For example, a tulip and a rose are completely different. A rose rose on the bush doors, but to local grocery corrosion of bones right out of the dirt now it’s not born. Now. If you bring some 10 year old kid into your garden, he’s gonna like it. He’s gonna look around and he’s gonna say, Oh, these are pretty and they smell nice. That’s all he knows. He’s happy about it. But that’s all he knows. Now. Most people are like that little kid. As regards human beings. They don’t know what they’re looking at I’m sorry, I had an interruption. I don’t know why. Ah, so they don’t know what they’re looking at. So this book, told you so okay. This guy to look this guy’s a rose. This guy’s a chrysanthemum. This guy is a hydrangea. Now, these all have to be treated different ways. Some of them need more water. Some of them need more fertilizer, some of them need to be in the shade and so forth. So it’s just like, my philosophy of life, which I had before I got this Septemics idea is some people are like rabbits. They can run like hell. They can’t swim and they can’t fly. You know what you do with that guy? Let them run. And some people like fish. They can’t walk. They can’t fly. But boy can they swim, let him swim. And some people are like a bird. The bird can’t walk very well. He can’t swim very well, but boy can he fly. So that is how I treat people. So this book fits into that perfectly. And I’ll give you an example. Let’s say you own a used car lot. And you need a new salesman. Right because you’re you’re you have so many cars you need another salesman. So interview this guy, right? And you observe in your conversation that this guy’s the level four on the scale of motivation, which is money. That’s what you want. You want a guy who’s money motivated? Because he’s going to be out there pitching to sell those cars because he wants his commission. Right? Can you hire that guy? Yeah, in contrast, let’s say you’re dating a girl, right? And in well let’s let’s get married, right. She talked about getting married. Now. She says she wants to marry you. Wouldn’t it be smart to know why she wants to marry me? Isn’t that a good thing to know? So, you you do an analysis. You think about it. And he say You know what? I can say the reason she wants to marry me is because I drive a Maserati. I have a 60 foot yacht. I fly my own Learjet. I live in a $10 million condo and have $20 million in the bank. That’s why she wants to know maybe he didn’t realize that you see, at what point do you realize you’re going out? With a gold digger? So you might say, I don’t want to marry somebody who’s money motivated. She’s pretty and all but I want someone who loves me. So he breaks off with her. Now, he’s not going to be bummed out by that. He’s not going to be there saying, Oh, it feels so bad. I was but he’s gonna say What a relief. Thank God I figured this out now, before she got into me for $20,000 a month in alimony. See, now, you can have another guy who is elderly, unattractive and overweight. Right who’s got more money than he could ever spend? And he marries Miss Texas who’s 23 years old. How does that work? I’ll tell you how it works. Miss Texas gets a mink coat, a diamond ring, a pearl necklace. A Corvette and a credit card. This guy who has all this money to burn, get a 23 year old beauty queen for a wife. So they’re happy. So you see to this guy. It’s no problem marrying a gold digger. She comes home and says honey, I want to go to Vegas for the weekend. It says okay, here’s five grand have a good time. It doesn’t care. See, because the other guy has a word that he wants somebody who loves him. So you see this is very personal. But this gives you a way to analyze it because since we’re talking about the scale of motivation, there are only seven basic human motivations. And the 1000s of others are subsets of these. So when you analyze someone’s motivation, you’re only selecting from a menu of seven, which is not hard to do. And that is true for each of the skills. That is why this is user friendly. You’re only selecting from a menu of seven. Now, if I were to go out here on the street and stop some guy and say, What’s your wife’s motivation toward you? He would look at me like a deer in the headlights. And he’d say something like how can I possibly know that there are 1000s of motivations No, there are only seven. And all of those others are subsets of these. Now when he looks at the scale, he’s going to say, Ah, yeah, this makes sense. I see how this works. And he’s going to spot her somewhere.

Sunshine   1:22:10

Yeah, curious. And you know, you I’m assuming that, you know, when we wrap it up in a bit, you’ll tell everybody where you can get this book. So you sell us as a book, right? Let’s say I were to go out I would or purchase this book, right? I mean, it doesn’t sound overly complex. Like I don’t have to be a you know I don’t have to be a polymath to understand it. But it does have some complexities to it right? It does sound like it has some some you know really great meat behind it. So how would you suggest a me somebody for the first time or anybody else that’s listening and wants to go out and buy that book? How would you suggest they navigate and of exploring this because, you know, as humans we are complex creatures with you know, multitude of, you know, relationships and patterns and things of that nature and how would we know what we should maybe explore first look at first dive into first, you know, how how somebody new how would they How should they navigate this for the first time?

Jim Marshall  1:23:08

What I know everyone in this regard is this is a textbook on a new subject. So you should study it like a textbook. The way you would study a chemistry textbook or physics text or biology textbook, or a math textbook, you start on line one of page one and you read that first sentence, and you make sure you understand it. And then when you do you go to line two, and you read that sentence, and you work your way through the book. That way. Nobody can teach a complicated subject haphazardly. This is not a coffee table book. It’s a textbook. So you get to the end of the book, having gone through ploddingly using all the glossaries that I have in there to assist you right. Then you go back to the beginning you read it again. And on the second reading fine your level on every scale. And by the time you get to the end of the second reading, you will be a new person because you will have had at least 35 insights into yourself. Because every time you spot where you are, see oh yeah, that’s right. I am that that makes sense. See, and you’ll have some kind of an epiphany. Now, this is a virtuous cycle because since you have an insight when you scale one, when you go to scale to you’re a little bit smarter. Now you look at that and you have another insight. Now you even smarter. So the more you use this, the more insight you have. The more insight you have, the easier it is to use. And so this just gets easier and easier at least so to me, using this material is as difficult as drinking water. It takes a little bit of attention and focus what your one year old tried every quarter he makes a mess right? But takes a little skill. But that’s how easy it is screen because I know this material, and this happens to me every day. I’ll meet some personal saw. This person is high on this scale and I and this scale and I and this guy, this is somebody I want for a friend. This is an upscale person see? And that’s exactly how it works. This is foolproof, so I like met somebody like nine years ago in a professional context, and I spotted this person. Yeah, this person is high on this scale, this scale. And so I said I’m gonna keep this person in my life. And we’re still associated, and it’s been great. And the opposite happens to where I’ll meet some guy. This happens on the internet that happens in the real world to meet some guy and I see that he’s at or near the bottom of one or several skills. And I say whoa, I’m not going to match with the sky. Have a nice day. I wish you all the best goodbye and I move on. And it was for that reason that I can absolutely guarantee you that if you study this book, it will prevent catastrophes, dilemmas, bankruptcies, indictments, lawsuits, fistfights, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, because you’re for woman. And I’ll give you a perfect example. I’m a serious student of military science. Now of course, I studied World War Two extensively. And in doing so, we know exactly what happened with him. We have all their records. And so I would look at actions that Hitler took from the viewpoint of a student of military science, let’s say, why would he do that? That doesn’t make any sense. I could go into this if you want to do an analysis of military size, but that’s not what we’re discussing. Now, I’m just scratch my head, and then we get to this other thing. He had a he had a non aggression pact. signed with Stalin. Why did he attack them? Humming gearing said to him, if the Russians get into war, we will lose. And that’s exactly what happened. So I was puzzled, you see, as a student military science now. Eventually I came to realize Hitler is at level seven on the scale of basic purposes. His basic purpose is to destroy. Now, this is hard for many people to grasp. Why would a person’s basic purpose be to destroy? Well, fortunately, there aren’t too many news people but he’s one of them at once, you know that? That all makes sense. He was not just destructive to the Allies. He was disruptive to the Wehrmacht. He was disruptive. He was almost family. He was destructive to everybody. That’s who he was. Pol Pot is another example. Okay. So when you get somebody who’s at that level, that’s what so now, I understand where we’re too much better. Okay, we have a looney tune, running the show for the Germans. His generals knew that. They told him if the Americans get in the war, we will lose because their industrial capacity exceeds all of Europe by itself. And he declared war on the United States. He didn’t have to do that. That was crazy. So this is where I could look at this crazy evil person and understand. Now when I look at World War Two makes a lot of sense to me. See, so if you had somebody else running the show, like Albert Speer, how much fear was not crazy and was not evil? Although he was a high ranking Nazi official, who would have gone very differently. They might have one if outreach fear was in charge, instead of they’re doing these stupid things, because it was crazy, because she was motivated to destroy. So now I know the basic purpose of every president of the United States going back as far as Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and many of the previous presidents who I studied, such as Washington and Lincoln and Jefferson. So what’s more important than knowing someone’s Baker’s basic purpose? It’s what the person is trying to do all the time. So I’m not telling anybody because that’s unethical. But I know what they are. See? And so I understand like, I understand where it’s from you but I understand Bill Clinton, I understand Obama, I understand Trump. I understand because I know their basic purposes. What you learn if you use this Returnless people tell you their levels, it comes right out of the guy’s mouth. He tells you now you have a way to correlate this. You say Ah, I see. He’s telling us he’s at level five on the scale of choice in Go. Give the man cigar you got it. Exactly. And that tells you how he’s going to process choice. You see, as an example. So for example, I have a client very smart, okay, very talented person. This guy has trouble making choices. I just know this from being around him. I’m not mentioning any names, not giving any levels of not. I didn’t tell him this, but I know this from watching him. He’s not high on that. Scale. If you see this guy, where would you like to go for dinner? Oh, boy, you would for a ride. You could be there for hours. See, if you ask me that you get an answer in one second. So because I’m at a different level on the scale of choice, you see so I know if this guy I tiptoe around it. I avoid asking him to make a choice because he is low on that scale. Now, most people are low on some sales and high and others and I can give you historical examples of that. But very, very few people like 1% are at or near the top of all the skills and a much larger proportion, maybe 4% are at or near the bottom of all the skills and those are the people who cause all the trouble. Most of us are high and some skills in law and other skills. So we have a guy you know he’s got a doctorate in computer science. He has his own company in Silicon Valley. He has $10 million in the bank, but he can’t get a relationship going with a woman See, different scale. So on the scale of human ability, he’s at or near the top, the scale of sexualities that are near the bottom. Just being hypothetical here. See? So you know now what you’re dealing with you understand most people just scratched her head. I don’t get it. This guy is so smart. Why can’t he get a girl to go out with him? See, it’s because he’s at or near the bottom of that skill. Now, if he’s your friend, you can say trike movie let me show you this and you go through the process I went through before you show the scale of sexuality. And you say to him, you don’t have to tell me if you don’t want because he might not want to tell you. But if you’re a good friend, he’ll say, you know, I realize I’m at level six on this scale. That’s my problem. And you say to him, Well, let’s move you up to level five and they’ll say You mean I can do that? Yes. And you help move up. There’s a whole section in the book about how to move yourself up. And there’s another whole section about how to move another person up. So you can use this out people including yourself.

Sunshine   1:33:19

I love that Jim and just because I you know, you warned us ahead of time that we could be chatting about this for hours and our time is shortly coming and I want to make sure that our audience has time to hear. You talked about the book you’ve talked about the the amazing, you know, new subject that you’ve introduced, How have you let our listeners know how can they find you, Jim and why might they want to reach out to you or connect with you or you know, outside of just you know, accessing and finding your book. Why why else may they actually want to reach out to you

Jim Marshall  1:33:53

Well, first of all, my email address is on my website. So anybody on earth can go to my website septemics.com and go to contact the author there. was don’t even know also, you know? What did you mean? A paragraph three on page 67. I’ll tell you that happens. But this book has because of the way people have responded to it, which was somewhat of a surprise to me. It’s sort of taken over my life. And so I’m on a mission to get this book into the hands of as many people as possible because I already know from 28 years of direct observation, anybody who matched this book will have an impact on society. Because what’s going to happen is your kids having a problem in school, you use the scale of lit of scholarship to move them up. Your girlfriend is having trouble with a boyfriend use the scale sexuality to move up. Your husband runs a business, use the scale of management, help them run it better. So you wind up using this. It’s just like, if I gave you a case of champagne, you would not sit there and drink it all by yourself. You might just have a bid party and invite everybody over to drink it. Or you might just use it, you know, for New Year’s and Christmas or whatever, right? You’re gonna use it for other people. Right? That’s what this is like. You have this wealth of technology that really facilitates dealing with people. Because people look at this and they get it. It’s just like, the first time you look at the periodic table of elements, you say, Oh, this is cool. It’s all there. This makes a lot of sense. You see I was a wizard in chemistry. And the periodic table was like, embedded in my brain. You know, he was like, so beautiful to me. And it was very easy to resolve everything in chemistry with that as a skeletal structure. And that is what this book is doing. So let me say this because this really clarifies it. Some people said what book is your book, like? Having gone to school for 28 years, and being a well read person I have to say in all candor, I don’t think there’s ever been another book like this, at least on our books, but every one of these scales is expressed in what you could call a table or a spreadsheet. It’s a whole body of data. And you can go to my website, and you can look at chapter one, and see the scale of basic purposes. It’s a whole plane of data, relevant data. Now, each one of these skills is like a periodic table. But instead of it being for the elements, it’s for the corresponding subject. So you have 35 periodic tables. And one is for basic purposes and one is for motivation, and one is for attack and one is for control itself. So you can go into any one of these areas. and analyze it. And I’m telling you from having worked on this for 25 years, and being coming at it as a well educated person. I know these skills. I’m not saying I think they’re correct. I know the correct the correct way. The periodic table is correct, the correct way. The Fibonacci sequence is correct. If you study the Fibonacci sequence, it’s a formula okay? It’s very, very specific. There’s a way to calculate it. And it’s in arguable and then you look at these all kinds of life forms that have these numbers embedded in their physiology. See, and you see, it’s natural look. Now where did it come from? We don’t know that. We don’t know where the Fibonacci sequence came from. We don’t know where the three laws of motion came from. Now, religious people say, Well, it came from God, well, okay. They can say that if they want. I’m not going to argue with them. But it’s there. And that is what we as engineers use, we take known facts, you know, the acceleration of gravity near the surface of the Earth is 10 meters per second per second. That is what it is. You don’t have to take my word for it. You can get a golf ball and a stopwatch and well calculated yourself. I’ll give you the formula. Okay. Everybody knows that’s what it is. Now, of course, it varies microscopically from area to you. So some places you’ll get point 99999 instead of one, but it’s still essentially the same number. We know that number. Okay. So engineers use that. Every time. They’re calculating anything in aerospace. They use that number. It’s a fact. So, that is what I did. I saw this phenomena. I wrote it down. I worked on it for 25 years. And what what would happen is, I sent out the first version 95. And I got a feedback. Then I worked on it for 25 years, and I would finish a version. I would send it out to college, to students, to associates to clients, and I would say, What do you think? And I get feedback. And then I would rewrite it, taking that feedback into account to make it clearer, easier to understand. The data did not change, but the way I expressed it changed. So you could quibble with some of the words that I use, and I could go into examples of that if you want, because writing is an art. You know, are we going to call this Scarlet, crimson or red? Right. That’s what the writer has to decide. So that’s why I said that was the most time consuming part of it. Because in order to make this work, I had to have the exact right word in each of these seven levels, on all 35 scales, you see, so it’s like taking Roget’s the service and running it through computer. Okay, so I spent a lot of time what are we really looking at? Because I saw this phenomena right in front of me, but then I don’t know how to articulate this. I am absolutely certain that Isaac Newton when he was 25, he had this epiphany with the apple falling from the tree being the same as the moon going around the earth. And he saw these laws of motion. And I’m sure he had a moment on he said, Well, how am I going to say this? How do I express this? Well, being a genius, he was able to write these three laws down in a way that makes sense to all of us in the science, engineering community. That’s why it’s stuck. So I could see that some people might say, Well, is this really the right word? Oh, that’s the word I settled on, because they spent years figuring out is this the best word? And I’ll give you an example. The scale of basic purposes level two is the leader. Okay. And that’s an example of Abe Lincoln. Winston Churchill, Alexander the Great, they were at that level. Their basic purpose was to conquer. If you study these men as I have, you’ll see they had this internal inherent drive to conquer. Lincoln wanted to conquer the Confederacy. Churchill wanted to conquer the Nazis. Okay, so that’s what I called it. That’s how somebody could say, well, concrete, that’s not a nice thing. Well, that’s a question of whose ox is being gored. I mean, when Lincoln conquered the Confederacy, he ended slavery. He preserved the Union. He had a very good outcome. That was most people today would say a good conquest. Now there are probably a few nuts in the south still saying the South will rise again, as they did for 100 years. But to most normal people, that was a good conquest, okay. When we beat the hell out of the Axis powers in World War Two, that was good conquest, the Japanese the Germans and the Italians did much better. Afterwards, we got rid of those evil people that were running the country. They got rich, because we got rid of those, the Hitler’s and the todos, and the Mussolini days. So that was a good conquest. So you see, you have to really put it in context. What are we talking about here? Because Alexander Hamilton is another guy who was at that level. He was going to have this leader if you studied his life from day one. He was the leader. Now he clearly wanted to conquer the British. There’s no ambiguity about this. He kept saying to Washington, give me a command. I will defeat them. Washington said you’re not going anywhere. I need you. You’re gonna stay right here by elbow, because he was so smart. Washington knew that he was smarter than Washington was, and he used him to the whole war for nine years, which was frustrating down with him if he wanted to conquer. It wasn’t until the Battle of Yorktown the last battle of the war, that he finally let him command a unit and that in the war. So you can argue with the words if you want, and I expect that not much of that has really happened to tell you this. But I did a pretty good job in selecting the right word, because people get this. The way you experience this protest is like, you put on your glasses and you look in the mirror. Oh, you know, if I want to get a good shave, I need to use my glasses. Now that wasn’t true. When I was young, I had good vision but now as an older person like everybody else, my eyes are not as good. And if I don’t put on my glasses, my girlfriend’s gonna say, Hey, you missed the spot here. You know. So, that’s what this book is like. You put on it’s like a lens. Each of these 35 scales is a lens that you hold up to the mirror to see yourself or that you hold up to somebody else. Hold it up to your boyfriend. Oh, I see what this guy’s doing. See? It’s very specific. Now I have to tell you engineers hate ambiguity. There’s no vagueness or ambiguity in engineering, if there is devised allows the engineer and whatever he’s working on is going to fail. Because that is not what engineering is about. When you buy that iPhone, you expect it to work. Now you could get a lemon and you send it to Apple and they send you a good one. But 1000s of engineers worked on that. Just like the Boeing seven 2700s of engineers worked on that okay to get it right. That is what engineers are about. That is what drives us. We want to get it right. If you’re not like that. You won’t be an engineer. It’s too painful. It’s not easy to study all the scientific material and math and then go into an area and solve a problem with it. Right? Shouldn’t be Jim, I want you to put a bridge over the stream. Okay, see, that’s going to take years it’s going to cost millions of dollars. I’m gonna have a whole crew, right trying to do this, but at the end I’m going to make sure that this bridge is going to stand, it’s not going to be disturbed by the currents. It’s not gonna be disturbed by the wind. It’s not gonna be disturbed by all the traffic that’s on it. If there’s a traffic jam on it, all of those things are taken into account. That is how engineers work. We make we take facts we make calculations when we put in margin of error with everything. Everything has a margin for error. Okay, so we know this is current industry and is five miles an hour. We’re going to calculate it at seven. So we know that we’re not going to make a mistake. See, that’s how we think that’s what I did with this. That’s why I spent 25 years writing the book. And the reason and the reason I released it when I did was I said nobody lives forever. Could I keep improving it? Yes. But look, I’ve worked on all kinds of projects. You can always keep improving it. This goes on with technology all the time, right? Every two months. Apple says we have an update. What happened? Their engineers improved it. You see, we fix a bug. We have a new device in there that will help you that is the way we progress as a technological society. So I could have kept improving it. But I said you know what? This works. People get it. I’m publishing it. Well,

Sunshine   1:48:14

I’ve been watching people benefit from this. And I am certain that we’ve got a lot of listeners that are going to be able to benefit as well but I know our time is up. I’m just going to state again the website you can find Jim at is is septemics.com. That’s septmics.com all sorts of great. He’s even got a sample chapter on there. There’s all sorts of good information. And as you heard him say his email is on there. So if you have a question or anything that you read, feel free to give a ring out to Jim directly. Jim, it was amazing having you on today and I love the topic. And I am really excited. I see it’s on Amazon it’s on Barnes and Noble. I don’t know if I’ll get to Barnes and Noble for I’ll get to Amazon so it might be an Amazon order for me but thank you, you know, thank you so much for sharing all this amazing conversation

Graham  1:49:07

with all of our listeners Graham anything before we know I appreciate the thoroughness. And like I said, I mean, I’m asked questions understand, I think it’s really important. There’s a whole lot of people that could benefit from right. Understanding spirituality in a different way. And look, you know, in Jim, you provide that opportunity. Right. So and I think that that’s what the important thing is here, and that’s for me, like, right, that was where I was, is that like it’s a tool, right? If this side of the people if like the woowoo works for them to get them to be happy and working together and making cool if you need some math to help you, you know, instead of the wound you get along and then cool. At the end of the day, let’s all just get happy to talk and moving along. And so I really appreciate the thoroughness and the defensive ability behind your work. You know, I mean, so I believe me, I know how difficult that is. I will be the first to tell you, I don’t have the patience to be able to do something like that. So I can’t even imagine the commitment you have. And so thank you for taking the time to do all of that so

Sunshine   1:50:02

that the rest of us didn’t have to. You’re welcome. Yes, thank you very much. And from all of us, from Graham and I both right here. We’ll wrap this as we usually do and encourage each and every one of our listeners to always find your own path. follow your own path into your own deepest spirituality. Until next time,

Jim Marshall  1:50:19

my dear friends much love from all of us to you. Okay, so I want to tell you something now that we’re done. I have a Septemics slideshow, which I created for the benefit of new people. Cool. The beauty of this is it shows the 35 scales. Ah, now, this is a visual medium. When you look at this table, it’s like looking at the periodic table. I don’t know if you study chemistry or if you remember with wood that was fine. But you know when I when I first looked at that, oh, this is beautiful. There’s hundreds they will fit perfectly, you know, in a certain way. And that really gives you a way to think about matter. And the energy behind it. So when you look at these people get it. I’ve been watching this for 20 years people look at this. Oh yeah, the scale of control. This makes sense. See? What’s been happening is this. Many hosts have been having me back putting the slideshow up on the screen. And then having me talk about the slides talked about individual scales. Here’s how the scale of basic purposes fits together like a Chinese puzzle. Here’s how the scale of personal insolence helps you. Here’s how the scale of controls benefits. So I can talk about specifics and I can answer your questions. And people get this. This is not something where we’re, you know, like you’re going to study quantum mechanics and it takes years to figure out what the hell was going on. You get this because it’s natural law.

Sunshine   1:52:08

And so people I love it, are you able to send those slides over for Yeah, yeah. Yeah, let me take a look at that. I know I was just looking at our calendar and I think we’ve got a handful of other openings still for this

Jim Marshall  1:52:21

season. So we can take a look at that and yeah, can you just so you have a context how to think about this. There are 35 scales. Now I have one host who’s doing one podcast for each scale. show they’re gonna be total a total of 37 because the last one is on the X. Yeah. So so you don’t have to do that. Now. I had other hosts to set. Let’s just do this one to scale as the other extreme. But many of the hosts will just have me do as many as we could do in, let’s say an hour. We do two or three and maybe four and then the next subject next podcast, we do the next group. And then the next part is we do the next group and eventually go through them all that way.

Sunshine   1:53:11

So it’s up to you. Yeah. Let me take and I’m sure there’s a medium in between there. Whether or not it’s all of them or whatever. But yeah, let me let me take a look. And in the meantime, I’m also going to try to get my hands on the book to start reading a little bit more because I think that’ll help me be

Jim Marshall  1:53:29

able to better understand Yeah, right. So I’ll send it over to you. You can if

Sunshine   1:53:35

you’re interested, get back to me and I’ll I will be at your service. Cool. Appreciate it a ton. Jim, thank you so much. It was a pleasure chatting with you this afternoon. And until we talk again, we’ll talk to you next time. Thank you. Take care

👉𝐶ℎ𝑒𝑐𝑘 𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑤𝑒𝑏𝑠𝑖𝑡𝑒𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑙𝑒𝑡 𝑆𝑢𝑛𝑠ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑒 𝑔𝑢𝑖𝑑𝑒 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑡ℎ𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ 𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑦!

🤙🏻𝐒𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐝𝐮𝐥𝐞 𝐚 𝐅𝐑𝐄𝐄 𝐒𝐨𝐛𝐞𝐫 𝐂𝐮𝐫𝐢𝐨𝐮𝐬 𝐂𝐚𝐥𝐥

🧡𝐒𝐮𝐧𝐬𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐑𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬 

👍𝐒𝐮𝐧𝐬𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐑𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬 𝐅𝐚𝐜𝐞𝐛𝐨𝐨𝐤 𝐏𝐚𝐠𝐞 

📷 𝐒𝐮𝐧𝐬𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐑𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬 𝐈𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐦

💜𝐈𝐥𝐥𝐮𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐞

👍 𝐈𝐥𝐥𝐮𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐞 𝐅𝐚𝐜𝐞𝐛𝐨𝐨𝐤 𝐏𝐚𝐠𝐞

📷 𝐈𝐥𝐥𝐮𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐞 𝐈𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐦

👍𝐒𝐨𝐛𝐞𝐫 𝐖𝐢𝐭𝐜𝐡’𝐬 𝐁𝐚𝐳𝐚𝐚𝐚𝐫 𝐅𝐚𝐜𝐞𝐛𝐨𝐨𝐤 𝐆𝐫𝐨𝐮𝐩

🚨𝐃𝐨𝐧’𝐭 𝐦𝐢𝐬𝐬 𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐬𝐞 𝐚𝐝𝐝𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐚𝐥 𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐨𝐮𝐫𝐜𝐞𝐬:

📲𝐈𝐥𝐥𝐮𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐞: 𝐒𝐨𝐛𝐞𝐫 𝐖𝐢𝐭𝐜𝐡 𝐀𝐩𝐩: 𝐴𝑉𝐴𝐼𝐿𝐴𝐵𝐿𝐸 𝐼𝑁 𝑇𝐻𝐸 𝐴𝑃𝑃 𝑆𝑇𝑂𝑅𝐸 𝐴𝑁𝐷 𝑃𝐿𝐴𝑌 𝑆𝑇𝑂𝑅𝐸 𝑇𝑂 𝐷𝑂𝑊𝑁𝐿𝑂𝐴𝐷

🔮𝐑𝐞𝐜𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲 𝐏𝐬𝐲𝐜𝐡𝐢𝐜 𝐑𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠:

🔮𝐏𝐚𝐬𝐭 𝐋𝐢𝐟𝐞 𝐒𝐨𝐮𝐥 𝐇𝐞𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐀𝐝𝐝𝐢𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧: 

🧑‍🎨𝐀𝐝𝐝𝐢𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐃𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐧 𝐏𝐚𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠