In this episode, Sunshine and Dan debut a fresh format that dives into the transformative journey of life after alcohol, exploring how creativity and community can reignite the spark of magick in recovery. Dan, now seven years sober, shares how he’s discovered new passions like painting and playing music, weaving them into his sober lifestyle.
Together, Sunshine and Dan tackle the challenges of navigating life without alcohol—addressing triggers, social shifts, and the profound need for connection. They shine a spotlight on Step 13 of the Witch’s 13 Steps to Recovery, a practice focused on healing the collective through spellwork and rituals.
Listeners are invited to hear their personal experience conducting a powerful community ritual designed to combat addiction, showcasing the transformative energy of creative expression and group support.
What You’ll Learn:
- How creative outlets like art and music can fill the void left by alcohol.
- The role of community in maintaining sobriety and embracing magick.
- Practical insights from Step 13 of the Witch’s 13 Steps to Recovery.
- Inspiration to incorporate rituals and collective energy into your recovery journey.
This episode is a heartfelt exploration of how life after alcohol can be enriched with magick, creativity, and connection. Whether you’re on your own path to recovery or supporting someone you love, this episode offers a wealth of inspiration and practical tools to nurture growth and healing.
Sunshine
Alright. Hey everyone. Welcome back. Happy New Year. We are officially in 2025 and I was hoping to get this episode in as the last episode of the year. But, you know, so be it. You can see, I’m not alone. Well, I should say, if you’re watching this on YouTube, I’m not alone, and that’s because here in the new year, we are introducing a new version our new style of episode in this over which life podcast, and that is magic after alcohol. So I’m pretty excited about these. As you can see, I’m not alone. These are going to be a little bit longer. They might be live streamed if we’re here, you know, and able to do that, so you’ll see us both, or they’re going to be recorded kind of on site. So we’ll, we’ll see, and I’m excited for that. I think it’s going to be a lot of fun. And so, because I don’t know if anybody of you know this incredibly handsome gentleman here with me. I want to introduce Dan, my partner. And so Dan buddy, they’ve heard a whole bunch about me. Um, why don’t you tell them a little bit about
Daniel Leyten
you Sure? I’m My name is Daniel Layton. I’m sunshine partner. I I am seven years sober from alcohol. Started this journey, started painting. After that, I’m a painter, I’m a chef, and I met this lovely woman, and we’ve been together. It’ll be going on four years here in a minute. It’s hard to believe, but yeah, we started this, you know, sharing this sober journey together, and it’s been very beautiful. And we had this idea to, we kind of talked about, when you you stopped drinking, what do I do now? Like, was always going to the bar and everything was wrapped up in that and going to parties and all these things, and a lot of people, what do I do now, you know, after you’re done, and so we had this idea of, kind of talking about all that, and going going off site and going to some places that we like to go to. And, yeah, doing some live streams, even from from on site. So I’m very excited to be joining now. And yeah, and see where it goes.
Sunshine
Me too, you know Dan? I know. Gosh, I have no idea if you guys can hear that. We record in the basement, and the cats litter boxes are down here. Big guy is, he’s taking the magical, yeah, yeah. So how embarrassing on that one, yeah.
Daniel Leyten
Dan waited, too. He waited. He did.
Sunshine
He’s, yeah, he’s, he’s probably waited all day for that, yeah.
Daniel Leyten
So the red light was like, Okay, on air.
Sunshine
On Air. Yeah. So, Dan, I know you don’t hang out in all the like sober groups on Facebook that I do, but I can’t tell you how often I see that, that comment that you’re saying like that, we’ve talked about, you know, of, hey, I’m thinking about, you know, stopping, but I don’t even know what I would do, or I life is bored. I see this one, and I’ve seen that a lot like life is bored now that I don’t drink, and I don’t know, to me, that’s just a shocking statement, you know, because I know how much kind of magic fun and excitement there is, but, yeah, I mean, when you were drinking, I’m just curious, because, you know, we’ve had this conversation. But like everything, everything kind of revolved around alcohol in some way, shape or
Daniel Leyten
form, yeah, in mine in particular, I was, especially towards the end, I was, you know, I didn’t want to be out drinking and driving, so I was home a lot, like a whole lot, I’d get off work and I’d go home and just start drinking After work. And I was essentially a prisoner in my own house because I didn’t want to go out and go out and get in trouble or hurt somebody. So I would basically come home and drink and watch TV or do whatever and and then go to sleep or pass out one of the two. So when I gave alcohol out, I was like, Whoa, look at this big world out here. Like, really, I started going to the gym. That’s huge, right there, just going out. And I would do that after work in that time, kind of idle hands. You know, I knew about those idle hands. And that boredom. So I started doing that as an outlet. But I saw it as this, like, opportunity to see the world finally, like, I didn’t have to stay at home, I didn’t have to worry about that. And I found that very freeing when I quit. I really did like,
Sunshine
I, you know, I’ve got this like kind of thought that keeps, you know, popping into mind of, you know, I don’t know that I was so much the exact same way, you know, with that, because I did, you know, I still went out. I had a, you know, gentleman that I was dating before you and I started dating, and we’d still go do things. He was very much like, get me out of the house to go do stuff, type of person, and, you know, but for me it was, it was the needing to moderate or rash, like ration the drinking, right? I can only have a beer. I can only have a beer every hour or so. And, you know, even though, I mean, I’ll be, I’ll be real Frank, even though I did not want to be drinking and driving, yeah, there were a handful of times where I would think he would, he’d be the individual that would be driving, and I’d end up having to drive with, you know, uncomfortable, and I’m horrified at this thought, horrified now
Daniel Leyten
I did too. I mean, I did. I did all that too,
Sunshine
and it I am. I’m blessed that I never was hurt. Nobody else was ever hurt. But the stories I know, you never said at any of the the, you know, any of the tables with AA, but I sat at AA tables. I’ve talked to a lot of people that not just getting a DUI, you know, horrific experiences, including like my niece, you know, Abby, she was hit by a drunk driver, yeah, you know. And it’s horrifying to think that. And so even though I did things I still so much of my social life, so much of my life outside of literally, my nine to five revolved around alcohol, yeah, and so walking away from it and leaving it, I had to learn how to be in the situations that I still wanted to be in without alcohol, and had to start to realize how many situations or agreements, you know, yes, I’ll go here. Yes, I’ll meet you there that I was doing a because they served alcohol, or B because I didn’t have the confidence or the courage to tell someone I didn’t want to go. Yeah, right.
Daniel Leyten
So, yeah, that is a very different situation than mine. It’s, it’s kind of a restructuring. When you do go out, like, the triggers you had a lot, must have had a lot more triggers,
Sunshine
a lot going out, a lot of triggers. And, I mean, even even now, like I, I think about it, there’s still certain spots and locations, you know, like, we’ve gone to the movie that one movie theater I like, and, you know, Heath and I, you know, you know, rest in peace. But we would literally go to a matinee. We would end up getting lunch ahead of time. We do at least a beer, if not two beers and a shot, because the the restaurant bar was right next to the movie theater. Yeah, right. And I’m not going to lie like there were times we’d take airplane models in with us and put them in, you know, I did that stuff too. And, you know, everything, like everything, revolved around drinking and so having to rewrite what life was going to be like. And oddly enough, I find it kind of humorous, I guess, as I’m going to say this, but like, I realized I actually liked being in the house a lot more. And you hear what mine was the opposite. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. I was
Daniel Leyten
breaking the chains by when I when I quit, I like, I wanted to be out. I want part of it was, there was some running involved too, but running away from emotions and that by being out all the time, but, and I was in a not great relationship, too, and I was isolating myself too, but I was also enjoying, like, being out for a change and like and I would just avoid at that stage, I wasn’t really going to bars and all that I wasn’t before I Quit, it was more like sad and in the house drinking and so it was. It was very nice to be out for me.
Sunshine
I just realized so I had there’s like these different settings on Zoom, and I just realized I had one that was only highlighting on me. So wave and say. Ionic. Oh,
Daniel Leyten
I wasn’t on the on the image, wow.
Sunshine
Oh. I mean, you know, you learn things as we go. I’m all all about not dealing with worrying about perfection, but yeah, they can see you now. Maybe you could do one of those extremes, the Invisible
Daniel Leyten
Man, like an AI voice or something.
Sunshine
Yeah. No, it was um, yeah, much different experience for us, and that’s why I think I love um. I love you know, you and I being able to do this together now, you know, and like you do, get me out of the house and still get to do stuff, but you’re not getting you’re not asking me to do I’ll tell you, I’m very grateful for this. You’re never asking me or expecting me to do things that I’m not comfortable doing, you know, or I don’t even interest in, or if I am over capacity and I can’t handle it, I don’t ever feel like a guilt trip, or, you know, I don’t even really feel the disappointment. I feel the like, Oh, I wish you were there. I wish. But I don’t feel like I don’t
Daniel Leyten
have any problem going out doing things myself either. Yeah, I need it sometimes, actually too. I like, I like little solitude too, and go out and put some music on and go for a walk. So no, I don’t expect you to do anything like that. And you’ve actually got me to slow down and become more comfortable being at home more often than instead of just running all the time, running myself Frank like I was doing, appreciate that too.
Sunshine
No, I think, I think we work well in that, you know, in that way. And, you know, I think, I think it’s a really good combination. And I, you know, I look forward to like we were saying, these episodes are going to be a little bit different. They’re going to be a little longer, so that we can share with you the various ways that, you know, either we individually, right, are going about doing things and, you know, finding the magic after alcohol or together. Because, you know, the reality is, you know, and I think, I think I’ve shared this before on the episodes, and if not, then I’m sure it’ll come up again. But addiction tries to isolate us, you know, it tries to, it loves to get us alone. Because if you can get us alone and isolated, it can overcome us, and it can, you know, become an obsession for us. You know, it’s not just the addiction, but it is everything to us at that particular point. And so I think us talking about and sharing how we’ve been able to find it together or with other people, right? So what’s, you know, I’m curious, what’s one of the things that you love to do now that maybe you didn’t do,
Daniel Leyten
um, walking. I love to walk. I love to I enjoyed. I needed a lot of like, visual stimulation now, I like to go for my walks and put some music on and just go out and be around people and see, see everything, see all the beautiful things, people. And when I’m home, I like to paint, which I did not do before I stopped drinking. I kind of, I started that directly after, like, I had this sad basement I used to sit in, and I cleared all that out and kind of filled it with color and made that my, like, my safe space when I was home. And it was a beautiful little space. And I would sit down there when I I was home, and like that, the idle hands started kicking in. I would go down there, and it would give me something to focus on. So those are my two things I really love. And the other one when we’re home is I love to play music, which I played guitar when I was a kid, and Jen here, my my ex, it was an annoyance to hear the music, I think, and I always felt like I had to play very quietly, and she did not enjoy it. So Jen really enjoys it. So she even put up places for me to hang all my instruments in the living room, and I have an amplifier there, and she’ll sit and read or do whatever, and I’ll play, and I don’t have to worry about that. And it’s the opposite, like she’ll comment on it and how it sounded, and so that’s very beautiful, too. It’s a like, one of my best creative outlets now I play like there could never play before, and that’s a huge creative outlet when I when I feel like painting, it’s like an instant. The release of my day by doing that. So those, those are the things that I love the most. I love
Sunshine
- I think, you know, it’s interesting because I’m as you’re, you know, sharing. I’m kind of asking like myself. And, you know, I’m not only a recovering alcoholic, I’m a recovering workaholic, like I’ve literally avoided being in the present, both through alcohol and work, you know, for much of my life. And so I kind of like paused for a second. I went, Oh, my god, is that what I’m going to say? Right? Like, what is it? But I I realized that, you know, the I got this picture of, if you were to be around or we I have, I don’t even know how many sketch pads, right? I really don’t, you know these, like, multimedia pads. And I absolutely, yeah, probably, like, seven, 810, maybe of them. And that’s just the blue covered ones, let alone those other ones that I’ve got. And so even if, you know, I’ve been building a business for the last five years, since I’ve been in recovery, so my mind would just start going to whatever it is that I might be creating. It might be new product. It might be, you know, you know, a way to set something up, a way to solve a problem. And so for me, it’s, it is, it is still addressing that kind of idle hands in a way that, you know, feeds me, right? And I don’t mean like, feed from a literal but like, it’s feeding some type of creative spirit for me as well. And you know, sometimes it is just sketching or pulling cards. I mean, I’ve spent plenty of time, you know, pulling out the cards and doing, you know, various different divination or things of that nature. I love to cook too, and you’re a good cook too, you know. So spending time, you know, putting together meal plans or grocery lists of things that I want to buy so that I can make a certain meal or thing of that nature. And, you know, I think last but, but not least. And it’s only I’ve only been able to pick this up this year as I’ve stepped out of corporate. But reading. I love to read. You know, I’m a I’ve ever since I was a child. I was a ferocious reader. And, you know, being able to pick up I committed to, once I left corporate back in April, I committed to, you know, stop reading all the like, don’t get me wrong, I still have magical and witchy books, and I still have, like, the personal development books and all that kind of stuff, but picking up fiction again and just enjoying a good story, and being able to get lost, yeah, you know that to me, has been a really, really beautiful thing, hard sometimes because I’ve, you know, focus can be an issue just as much as hyper focus can be, you know. But, yeah, I really love to be able to do that. Those are, and these are things just on an individual basis, you know.
Daniel Leyten
I miss those, those afternoons you and the hammock out in the garage, reading and me painting out there. It’s been so cold, so we’re confined to the house a little bit.
Sunshine
So, yeah, the cold weather makes things a little bit more difficult. And the holidays, I mean, let’s be real. You know, I the holidays have been going on for the last six weeks.
Daniel Leyten
Yeah, just had a little longer than that. The way, the way they run out, stretch out now,
Sunshine
yeah, well, I’m, I’ve often said, and I think in in some of the podcasts, when I’ve talked about holidays the last couple of times, you know, they basically, for me, begin at solid, you know, at Halloween, right? So you’ve got almost two months of this, like holiday energetic. And, yeah, they can be tough. They can be tough, and the cold does not aid in that. You know, for those of you that are in the north, in the colder areas you you, I’m sure you feel us. I look forward to the warmer days. Thank goodness. The days are getting longer again. But we do have something really interesting that we have been doing together, and I thought it would be a really good first thing for us to share and talk about. And in case you haven’t been paying attention the last couple of episodes. I shouldn’t say that just the last couple of the last 12 ish episodes I’ve been introducing and talking about the witch 13 steps to recovery. And the one step that we had not yet covered was Step 13. And so if you are on, I’m just going to share this real quickly, because if you are on catching this on YouTube, you’re going to be able to see this. But this is it, right. Step 13 is healing the universe, right? So I engage in spell work and rituals that send energy to heal the collective, releasing the universe from the pain and suffering brought by addiction. In and Dan, I’ve talked to you about what the actual like, AA Step 13 is, right? Yeah, for those of you that have a 12th in a though, right? No, it’s this. There’s a 13. There’s a 13. So let me I’ll elaborate on this, just to make sure that we’re all on the same page, because this is very intentional. I was probably, I don’t even know, it was a couple of weeks into aa for the first time, and somebody had pulled me aside and made a comment about the 13th step. And I said, you know, someone was 13th stepping, hers, how it was referred and I said, What are you What are you talking about? Like, what do you mean? And they, basically, they use that as a way to indicate that there is an old timer in the program that is predatorily approaching a newer individual in the program their 13th stepping them using their status as being in recovery for an extended period of time to take advantage of somebody that was newer in their recovery, befriend them and wanting to date very often, yeah, yeah.
Daniel Leyten
I didn’t know that’s what they called it. Yeah, I know. I know that’s a thing, and it’s very frowned upon. Oh, yeah. But I didn’t know it was referred to as the 13th,
Sunshine
yeah, it’s, and it’s, it’s, it’s a very derogatory use of the Step 13. And for me, you know, not everybody there in the program knew and understood that I was a witch, but I am. I’m a witch. I’ve been a witch for a long time. Um, even if I wasn’t out of the broom closet at that particular time, it bothered me. It bothered me a lot, because the number 13, for a witch, has very significant purposes. If you’ve ever worked with Hecate, you’re going to know that that’s one of the numbers that indicates her. There are 13 moon cycles throughout the year. It just, it has a, you know, a lot of witches believe that Friday, the 13th is a very powerful and magical day. So, yeah, it really, you know, from a dark goddess perspective, it pissed me off. Yeah, it’s really dark. It pissed me off. And so when I was rewriting the steps, you know, for a witch, I decided to take back that 13 step. And what better way to do it than to do it? You know, right after, it’s the same similar 12 step that we’re out there helping other individuals, you know, other witches, but this one, this Step 13, is literally healing the collective, right? It’s doing intentional ritual or spell work to specifically heal the collective, heal the universe, heal that energetic current that exists, you know, in so many of our communities, you know, and by communities, I don’t just even mean just the folks that you directly surround yourself, but the people that are surrounding you, right? And so, yeah, we have, we’ve got the 13th step, and I’m going to go ahead and take it back to just us again. I am. Gosh, here’s this, like, beautiful story. I had decided that I was going to conduct my first ritual for this. Do you remember correctly at a event that you know, Dan and I had participated in yearly for at least a year, I think I’d been two years, and you did it with me the year before, there was this non profit event, and they agreed that I could conduct a ritual at the event. And so I told them it would be a community based ritual. I didn’t know what it was going to be at that time. And as the summer progressed, because it was in September, you know, spirit finally talked to me and said, Do it as the 13th step. And I was shocked, shocked when I shared it with the organizers and said, Hey, here’s the community ritual, and this is what it’s going to be about. And we’re going to, you know, combat addiction and don’t, don’t get me wrong, you know, it’s nothing of the that nature was going to be like a, you know, it would have been very beautiful. There’s nothing obvious in the ritual itself that it’s around addiction, except, you know, kind of talking about combating it, and they told me they weren’t comfortable with it. You remember that? Mm, hmm,
Daniel Leyten
yeah. It was shocked myself, yeah. Totally
Sunshine
shocked. Told me they were not comfortable with that.
Daniel Leyten
I think everybody, everybody out there has someone in their life that they’re like hurting, watching them suffer with addiction. And I didn’t, I didn’t understand that, why they wouldn’t want to participate in that. It was very. Shocking to me.
Sunshine
I think the the truth that I came to is that it gets too close, right? You know, even though that they everybody may have somebody they know, sometimes that person that they know is themselves,
Daniel Leyten
it would have been polarizing for somebody that was involved. Yeah,
Sunshine
that wasn’t so, you know, I not positive, you know, but I do think it was too uncomfortable for them to think about, you know, for whatever reason, it brought a shadow out in them that they weren’t ready to face. But with every dark cloud, there becomes a silver lining. And I, I will tell you, you know, this is, this is another one of those examples where you know, everything happens for a reason, because old me, old you know, still not in recovery. You know, I don’t even want to say just alcoholic, you know, sunshine, just not having done the work that I’ve had. Once that happened, I would have been destroyed, right? I would have been destroyed, you know what? I’ve looked at it and been like, What are you talking about? I would have gotten right. I was upset, but I would have gotten angry. Yeah, right? And instead, you know, I made a commitment in life, I don’t know, two years ago in my recovery, to start looking at things with curiosity. So I wonder, wow, if, if I can’t do it there, then you
Daniel Leyten
handled it very well. You kind of just Okay, moving on. Let’s find a new spot. Yeah,
Sunshine
who’s what? What does the universe have for me if that’s not not the place that I’m supposed to be? And lo and behold, we you know, I happened across a friend that was sharing on Facebook that their girlfriend had an Airbnb for rent, beautiful property, and I, by happenstance, decided to reach out and talk to them and ask whether or not they would be willing to do a non monetary exchange for use of the property for the ritual. I uh, yes, was, you know, I don’t even know that it was like there was a hesitation at all. She was absolutely, absolutely willing, absolutely excited to do the exchange. And saw, saw purpose in it, saw reason for it. And so, lo and behold, we conducted our very first community ritual. And by we, yes, I may have let it, but Dan was heavily involved, you know, and will continue to be involved in these. But why don’t you share like, I love the the story on the property. Share a little bit about this property and
Daniel Leyten
those property. It’s an it’s an older, older, large home in in Detroit, kind of down close to the river, near the Ambassador Bridge here, which is kind of the bridge that bridges Detroit to Canada, and in the shadow of of this hotel in the Detroit area here, called the Yoruba Hotel, which is, we’re all like, whoa. You know, that’s the white stripes did a song about this hotel, and the one line that always gets me is, all they got inside is vacancy, because it’s very tied to addiction, and there’s a lot of troubled soul in that hotel, and it’s like, directly behind the house. And we were just like, Whoa, this is, like, so perfect for what we’re doing. You know,
Sunshine
we even found out that they have an A they run an AA meeting, yeah,
Daniel Leyten
yeah. They have an EA meeting there that happened to fall on one of the nights of the, yeah, one of the last rituals we did.
Sunshine
So it’s, you know, Detroit has a very, you know, rough history. Any major city is going to have a history of addiction that runs through it. At some point we discover that this house, like we had no clue at at when we agreed to, you know, when we agreed to the exchange that this house was like, literally in the the very vicinity of this, you know, rich history hotel of just you start reading some stories about it, and the stories literally talk about addiction. And I’ll even share more. We find out that more than one individual has passed away in the house. One of the individuals that passed away in the House passed away from lung cancer. That was because of cigarette addiction, right? And, yeah, so we’ve been conducting these rituals, and they’re open to the public that and that’s. Me I think, is, like, I’m committed to it. I’m committed and I, every now and again, I have this, like, thought of because they’re, they’re not cheap. You know, it’s not even though I get the property right, we’re still providing supplies. We’re still providing, you know, the beverages. We do it potluck style, so that that actually does reduce some of the cost, so everybody can kind of bring a dish, but still gotta have the paper products and all that kind of stuff. So it’s still money out of the pocket, but it has been probably one of the most beautiful things that I have led from a magical ritual perspective, too. You want to, you tell what? What’s your experience with it, you know? What? Like? Tell a little bit about the piece that you know. You bring to the table with this. Because I don’t, I don’t, I don’t. I could share, but I think, yeah,
Daniel Leyten
we so what we did on the first few, the last one, we did a little differently. It was the first few. I’m a painter, as I mentioned, and I led a painting, just kind of bringing up, kind of channel out some some energies around addiction and healing. And we would have everyone come up to the come up to the canvas and add, add whatever they wanted to add to it. And then we, we had a fire in the yard, and we’ll take it out there and burn it to release it and bring the healing from everybody’s collective on that. We’ve had some lovely folks show up. New folks will show up to each one, we had a couple of repeats too, folks that have been struggling and looking for a community outside of AA that, you know, with with similar, similar beliefs, and didn’t feel like they felt fit in at AA and some other other groups. So,
Sunshine
show the last one. Yeah, show some B. That’s the one we did for salwin. And you’re correct. We did this last one because it’s hard to have a full fire, you know, in the middle of winter, because it was, it’s cold, and keeping a fire stoked and burning and then asking people to go outside into the cold is a little bit rough. So we did do it a little bit different, still involved fire, but yeah, I, I love this because, you know, as Dan shared, and even as we were talking about one of our I think both of our ways of stepping into and staying in recovery has been embracing our creative energy and our creative spirit. And so this, to me, allows that, you know, the these rituals will always, I don’t care if I ever have a flavor that’s different, there’s always going to be a creative aspect to it every single time. And to watch people you know, some of these are folks that I’ve known. Some of these folks are strangers. Still be willing to step up and to connect and to share and to talk about their story, whether it’s a struggle that they’re currently have, or a victory that they’re, you know, expressing is just it was beautiful,
Daniel Leyten
incredible. I don’t know that some of them would have had a place to do that. Some of them were very apprehensive to go to AA, and they found some community there. It was very beautiful. And they were everybody’s always shared. Everybody that shows up has shared.
Sunshine
I you know, I think what two things that have surprised me the most about it is, you know, we do open it to the public so, you know, anybody is able to come and join. And we have had folks, you know, just from the general public, have shown up and brought dishes to share, right? And have literally done the public. I love the fact that these last two, William and Abby, right? We’ve got, yeah, William’s my son, and Abby is Jen’s niece, yeah. So these youth, these younger individuals, still in their teenage years, able to be there and to be present and to witness the healing that you know, Dan and I are a part of, but they also get to be a part
Daniel Leyten
- They also shared, oh yeah, yeah, which is very beautiful. My son’s very introverted, and it’s not his his comfort zone, but he shared. Also it was, it was very beautiful. I was proud of them and glad to have them there. It’s been to all of them, though, right? I
Sunshine
don’t think he went to the first one. I don’t think we had the very first one, that’s right, but he has been to the last two. And I, I don’t put it besides Him, as long as something else isn’t going on with him. And I’m hoping at one, one point that, you know, it’ll work out that Anna’s able to join, yeah, because I do think you know, and that’s why I think I love these rituals, is because it’s literally, we call them awakening hope, a community ritual to combat addiction. Because, to me, that’s what we’re trying to do there is awaken hope for a different world. You know, awaken hope for a different world. If you are struggling with addiction, that you can step out of it, or awakening the hope. You know, I don’t know how much I’ve talked with you about this one, Dan, but how you know the other thing I in the Facebook groups I’ll often see in the sober groups that whole board concept, right? You know, what do I do now? But in a witchy groups that I’m in, I will often see the commentary around I know someone, my son, my daughter, my partner, is struggling with addiction. What can I do? Yeah, what can I do? And you want to know what? Everybody keeps telling them, there’s nothing you can do for them. They’ve got to go to they’ve got it, they’ve got it. They’ve got to want it for themselves. They’ve got to want and I don’t disagree with that concept. You
Daniel Leyten
do have to want it, but there’s, it’s, there’s, it’s not true that there’s nothing you can
Sunshine
- Oh god. I mean, that’s the that’s part of the point of these rituals is, you know, being able to awaken the hope in them, right? Being able to pray for them, to find the courage that they need, right,
Daniel Leyten
diverse, finding community,
Sunshine
yeah, encouraging that, yeah, it’s but it’s heartbreaking to see so many people, and I’ve been there, you know, I know you have experienced not just with your own addiction, but you’ve which witnessed addiction in your family. Oh, yeah, a lot, right? And feeling helpless, yeah, feeling like there’s nothing that you can do. You just gotta sit there and wait. I can’t do it. No, I can’t do it. You know, I prayed every day for my partner before you, you know, who succumbed to his own addiction and passed away almost two years ago because of it. But I did. I prayed that he would find the courage that he needed to take steps towards a better life. You know, it didn’t end up that way, but there was something that I could do. Yeah, you know, I don’t, I don’t believe in preaching, the the the belief of helplessness, that you can’t help in some way, shape or form. I think
Daniel Leyten
a lot of lot of folks are afraid to speak up to their family too. Nobody ever approached me. I mean, I mean, I kept it. I tried to keep it secret to how much I was drinking. I did too, like my co workers, nobody really knew, maybe, maybe a couple, but there was, there were definitely, definitely sons that I was losing control and,
Sunshine
yeah, you know, well, I don’t know about your family, but I know even for me, it wasn’t just my family, you know, my my dad’s an alcoholic, you know, but even my friends, like that was the culture of of my family and my friends, right? My family all drinkers, you know, I had my grandfather, who’s been passed away for a long time. He was, he was a recovering alcoholic. And then I had one uncle, right? One other uncle, um, but everybody else drank, yeah, you know, and my cousins and I, when we came of age, we drank. That was the thing, like everybody in the cycle, yeah. And then as far as my friends, most of my friends, prior to me getting sober and stepping into recovery, were all partiers. I have so many memories and and I don’t, I don’t think you have these. I have so many memories of getting drunk around my friends kids, yeah, like all of us, just getting memories
Daniel Leyten
of getting drunk around my own kids. Very hard. I it
Sunshine
hard, hard, you know, and so no, nobody said anything. Because for them to say anything, they’ve gotta look at their own, yeah, it shines
Daniel Leyten
a light on their their problem, too. And there’s that piece of misery loves company. Oh my, yeah. That’s a big piece of it too. Like they stop. Who am I going to drink with? Or, yeah, am I going to have to stop?
Sunshine
Scary. That’s why, you know, I I still, I love the 13th step so much. You know, I love these rituals that we’re doing because it does. You know, I 100% 100% believe that. You know, if you love someone, whether that someone is you right, or you’re trying to find love for or somebody that’s in your family, a friend, a co worker. I don’t care who it is, you can, you know, I think folks in a in a religious perspective, would say, Pray. Pray for them. Pray for them to find that courage. But as a fucking witch, as a person that believes in magic, you can do spell, you can do ritual,
Daniel Leyten
yeah? Listen to the prayers. Put something out there. Do everything you can.
Sunshine
Yeah, we have So Dan, it’s really beautiful because he leads these, you know, he steps up, he’ll start the canvas, he’ll put whatever he, you know, is called to on the canvas. And as he described, everybody’s able to step up and add to it. And, you know, I give him a choice. People are given a choice that they can just paint, they can just talk, or they can paint and talk, but they’ve gotta do something, you know, I think painting is easy if you’re introverted, you know, you just put some dots on you see, there’s just some dots on the paper. And, yeah, it
Daniel Leyten
doesn’t need to be a masterpiece, no, it just needs the intention and and the release that they feel from putting that out there, yep,
Sunshine
and then we burn it. That I think to me, has been one of the most, you know, powerful experiences is watching, you know, I call, you know, I do the invocation I call forward at that particular point, depending upon we do them on the pagan holidays, the holiday that it is will, you know, set the intentions of specifically, like saw in we obviously did around trying to break ancestral kind of curses, around addiction. For you all, we actually reached in and worked with the inner child, and, yeah, we burn it. We literally stand there. And I, you know, we’ve also been very blessed because I have a dear friend that’s a music therapist and has a beautiful instrument collection. We’ve drummed. We’ve drummed to it being released. It’ll be real interesting to do on, uh, in June, when it’s still light out, yeah, you know, because it’s been dark these, uh, all these times by the time. So it’ll be interesting to do for June, even June and August. But it’s, it’s been incredible. And I’m, I’m grateful that you’ve done it with me. I really involved.
Daniel Leyten
It gives me purpose to do these events.
Sunshine
Yep, well, that’s the 13 step is, you know, doing this, I don’t, you know, it’s, it’s interesting, and I think, I think people that like truly, truly embrace their path of recovery. Start to get this that you know, in order for us to really be in that state, it’s hard to avoid this, like compulsion to help spread the message.
Daniel Leyten
For me, it’s, it’s hard to watch somebody struggling. And I can’t just sit back and watch them. I can’t I have to at least say something and and show them a different way if I can, if they’re willing to listen. You know, yeah, it’s, it’s painful to watch somebody just going down that path and not knowing what to do. It’s really hard.
Sunshine
Well, my dear, we are about at the time that I’d said. So anything else you want to share? Anything else right all around in your head today?
Daniel Leyten
Um, think so. This is really beautiful, doing it, talking to you like this. I
Sunshine
think it’ll be good for everyone listening, but I think it’ll be a really beautiful thing to
Daniel Leyten
share with you. Beautiful for us. I’m looking forward to getting out and doing some things with you too, and doing these. It’ll be an interesting way to do it.
Sunshine
I think the BIA would be a good one.
Daniel Leyten
Yeah, I think that’ll be a good start. The BIA is, for those listening, is the Art Institute of Detroit here. It’s also my favorite place on earth. I love to go there. I try and go once a week. I put some music on and just wander and I. Uh, get inspiration and try and connect with all the art in there and all the artifacts from different religions. And it’s, it’s a such a beautiful place, and I think it’ll be a lot of fun, yeah, to do that, do one of these there. I
Sunshine
think we’ve got a whole bunch we can do that day when we head out, but it’ll be really lovely, you know? And the the shorter episodes, I always kind of have a little bit of of a tidbit at the tail end of, like, you know, why we share all this with you? And I just want to reiterate this again here today we’re sharing this is because there is magic after alcohol, right? It just takes you to be willing to find it and to live it.
Daniel Leyten
Yeah. See life, how much life is worth living, yeah, when you stop, I sure did. It was my experience, yeah, that I love life now, and I didn’t so much
Sunshine
before. I adore that, and I love life with you. Love life with you too. For anybody that is listening and you are interested and you’re in the metro Detroit area, are you willing to drive to the metro Detroit area? We do these free community rituals every one of the pagan holidays, so you can always reach out and connect. And if you’re interested in doing one of these rituals in your area because you are compelled to do a 13th step, please feel free to reach out, and I’m happy to provide you some guidance on how you might be able to do that. It would be really lovely. Yeah, it would be really lovely. So that’s, that’s the goal
and the
Sunshine
hope that I you know the day that happened, I think I’m just going to sing from the mountain tops and just, you know, celebrate how beautiful life is to be able to share that. So I love this, and I love, love doing this. So if you’re good, I’m good, damn good, awesome. Well, hey everyone, thank you for tuning in again. I’m going to be alternating these, these longer episodes, and then my shorter ones, pretty much every other week. So until next time our our dear, dear friends. Much love from Dan and I to all of you.
Daniel Leyten: Thank you, everybody. Have a B\beautiful week.
