Dr. Eleanor holds a Ph.D. from the University of Chicago, where she trained as a Social Sciences researcher before becoming a licensed Clinical Psychologist. Since 1974, her meditation practice and profound spiritual awakening experiences have guided her career, focusing on helping clients through personal transformation while preserving their natural divinity.

Dr. Eleanor specializes in the Four Worlds—mental, emotional, spiritual, and physical—integrating these dimensions into her work to help clients achieve holistic alignment. Her unique approach blends psychological insights, spiritual counseling, and energy healing. She partners with clients to navigate their personal evolution, supporting them in accessing clarity, harmony, and balance across all levels of consciousness.

Certified in multiple modalities, including hypnosis, Clean Language coaching, Imago Relationship Therapy, Reiki, and Tai Chi Gung, Dr. Eleanor uses a comprehensive approach that supports growth without undermining self-esteem or autonomy.

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In this enlightening episode of The Deepest Spirituality Podcast, hosts Sunshine and Graham engage with renowned guest speaker Eleanor to traverse the intricate intersections of human design and astrology. The discussion illuminates the profound connection between the solar plexus and the multifaceted human experience—spanning physical, mental, and emotional dimensions. Eleanor emphasizes the crucial role of identifying psychic abilities in children, setting the stage for nurturing spiritual awareness from a young age. The dialogue takes a deeply personal turn as Speaker 2 unfolds their transformative spiritual journey, offering insights into growth and self-discovery. Meanwhile, Speaker 3 prompts a thought-provoking inquiry into the balance between credibility and spirituality within the field of psychology. This episode invites listeners to contemplate the complexities of consciousness and the potential for embracing controversial ideas, paving new avenues for exploration in the pursuit of spiritual enlightenment.

Sunshine   11:15

Hey, everyone, welcome back to episode four of deepest spirituality. We once again your co host sunshine, the pink haired psychic, medium and

Graham Skidmore  11:26

grand the self proclaimed breaker of mold and builder of bridges.

Sunshine   11:29

I just your quick reminder here everyone if you are listening to us here for the first time, go check us out on all the major platforms. Take a listen there are other episodes or other great folks that we’ve connected with the have amazing insight. Very similar to what you’re going to hear today and I’m excited for today’s guests like really, really excited I was sharing with her a little bit beforehand too because she has a bit of a background in human design. I have a little bit of a fascination with anything that tries to help explain how as human beings work within this world. And she just has a perspective on it that I’ve never really explored so excited to dive into that but as usual, we’re going to start with that opening ritual everyone. And so I just want you know, if you are in a safe place, go ahead and close your eyes. You know, if you’re driving, please don’t do that. But if you’re gonna say please close your eyes. Just take a deep breath in and exhale and just settle yourself and ground yourself in with us right here in this moment. And I want you to imagine as you’re sitting there, you’re a little self, you know, a little human, I just want you to imagine that bright white beam of light extending all the way from the top of your crown, up, up up far, far into the heavens and you know, almost as though you know, just keep looking and it expands and it goes in through the clouds all the way up through the top atmosphere of the Earth and almost like if you were to kind of scroll your mouth and expand out it just keeps going the watch how that beam of light goes all the way out through the Milky Way to the rest of the cosmos reaches all the way to the far expansion of whatever may exist to the point that once that beam of light finally goes beyond where it’s comprehensible. You see it connected to a brilliant beautiful, pulsating white star. Right? Just take notice of that star. That star is the representation of your higher self, your self that’s a part of that gigantic collective consciousness that every single one of us are part of it as you take note of that beautiful little pulsating star maybe noticing if it’s twinkling or moving turning. You see that right by it is another star. That other star well that that start as a little bit of a shade of pink. That star represents me. And you see me kind of just my higher self just bounce in. And as you take note of both your star and my star you watch as a beautiful iridescent silver thread just extends out from the middle of each of the stars and continues to slowly expand until it connects right in the middle between the two. And attaches. Look at that connection Beautiful Me and you connected. And as you notice that connection, you now take a glance around and you see all of these other beautiful little twinkling stars each representing another higher self. Just as that happens you watch as those beautiful silver iridescent threads. Reach out and connect with you. So that now we’re in this beautiful sea of stars that are all connected. All part of the same collective consciousness all able to hear to learn to grow to expand and to evolve together. Taking another deep breath in and exhaling out. You find comfort in that connection and calm and return right back here into your body. I’m right back down following that white light all the way back down into the cosmos into the Milky Way. Noticing the earth back through the atmosphere all of the clouds right here to you. Get a deep breath in and you can open your eyes my dear friends. As I said I’m really excited for today’s episode. You know, I think I say this every time but we talked to such amazing people. So I’m really blessed for that and our guest today. So excited. Eleanor please correct me if I say your name wrong, but Eleanor Haspel Portner perfect. I’m so excited to have you on here today. And as as we always like to start. The floor is yours. I want to know your journey right where we are here talking about the deep journey that so many of us that step into the spiritual path start to explore Eleanor How did you find yourself here with Graham and it?

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  16:44

It started as a child. i My first memory is of seeing auras and realizing that the people around me didn’t know what I was responding to. So for whatever the reason I didn’t talk about it. I didn’t act on it. But I registered what I was seeing. I grew up in a family that was relatively psychic. So they didn’t condition it. Out. But they didn’t condition it in either. They didn’t encourage it. They didn’t discourage it. But I was very blessed to have parents who always said to me, do what you think is right. We trust you so as I got older, I would find things for friends and I was psychic. And I knew that if I was going to do anything spiritual in my life, I needed a PhD I needed the credibility. So I I applied to University Chicago in a department that was an interdisciplinary department. It was psychology, sociology, anthropology and biology. I didn’t know what the time that it was laying the groundwork for where I am now. But of course retrospectively it does. And I, when I was 11, one of my sisters and the youngest of five, one of my sisters gave me the little prints to read. And it touched my soul. And then when I was 15, she gave me youngest memories, dreams, reflections, and I knew that ultimately I wanted to be a young be an analyst. So I went to graduate school I ah, the department I was in was phenomenal. It was there were 25 of us at University Chicago Committee on Human Development in the entering class, and the teachers. The faculty believed that if the student had a problem, it was the fault of the faculty. How amazing was that? They gave me complete support, and I did a major dissertation looking at religiosity, family interaction patterns. child rearing practices and trial guilt. And it was the first study that actually interviewed children instead of parents about their children. I had

Sunshine   19:46

full somatic response with that Eleanor, how powerful that work had to have been both for the folks that you were involved with in that research, and just for you, so my goodness, yeah. So

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  19:58

I was doing that I was teaching college. I took personality testing and all kinds of psych at the college and graduate level for three years while I was having my children and working on my dissertation. And then with my children who were born there a year apart a little less. I was already a developmental psychologist, and I didn’t know what to do with children who had a tantrum or needed X, Y and Z. And so I went and studied parent effectiveness training and learned those skills. And it happened that Tom Gordon came out of the same department. I did, so did call Rogers. And while I was there, Kubler Ross was there. So my education was intense, and very broad. And because of my children, I decided that I really did not want to do research and be in academia. I wanted to help people transform and I have the skills to help them do that. So I that’s a little bit ahead. I once I was involved in my practice and the communication, it was very clear to me that my first husband and myself had different values. And so I divorced him. And and as I did, I also started meditating with TM and how to direct experience of God in January of 1974. And in that direct experience of God, I was shown about life and death and rebirth. And I was presenting the question of what am I afraid and the answer I was given was, you’re afraid of death. Because at the moment of death, we forget and we’re reborn without remembering and our life is to remember relief. And I was shown also that in relationships to people are walking the same path because they believe they share the same values, and they’re connecting and that if one person veers off, the other person needs to pull them back. And that’s what relationships are about, is helping each other stay on an aligned path. So, I wrote a book called marriage in trouble the time of decision based on what God had shown me. And I sent it off to a publisher and got a contract back in the mail. And at that point, I went into my advisors at University of Chicago, I said, I’m not writing the book you want me to write, I’m gonna write a book about relationships. And that ended my University Chicago experience. But I wrote the book, I opened an office got licensed as a clinician and stuff started just helping people and working with consciousness. It was more about developing all of my psychic abilities. knowing things about patients and clients and having Kundalini after Kundalini experience without knowing anything about it, and after one of them, I was sitting at the airport in Phoenix with my mom. And the lady at the next table was going to die within 24 hours. And I started crying. And I said to my mother, what do I do? What do I do? I can’t, you know, I’m seeing too much. So I spent five years learning how to control it, and not seeing what I didn’t want to see. All the while practicing and I started doing groups with my clients, and I became the 10th Reiki master in the West. I was doing group therapy three days at a time every six weeks for 10 years. And I loved it. I love the creative work it gave me and I was studying. I stood you know, I continued my studies and LP masters in Johnson, Erica from Reichman to study hypnosis and get certified an ash consultant for hypnotherapy, and I was the president of the Southern California Society for Clinical hypnosis, and co founded the Los Angeles Erickson Institute. So I kept studying and in 1996 I met human design. And in 1999, rah, rah who channeled the information, asked my husband and myself to validate it. I met my husband in 1978. I moved to California from Chicago in 1977, because it was home. And in 1978, I was told by a voice to go to Osho ashram in Pune. I had no knowledge of Osho but a voice tells you to do something. I’m a good student, I obey. So I went to India and I met my husband at the day and time that my mentor astrologer told me I’d meet someone who would be important the rest of my life. And Marvin was a medical doctor who double boarded, who left his medical practice in Beverly Hills, because he could not do herd medicine and he remembered as a child being a healer picking up energy in his body, from people who he touched. So he had left his medical practice and was not actually planning to come back to the States because he wanted to spend as much time as he wanted with his patients. So we met and he came to my room to take a shower because I was at the five star hotel and he was at an Indian dump. And he came we asked me out that night and never left. So we’ve been together for 46 years. And 10 days after I returned from India, because I had my practice my children, etc. He returned and called me from LAX and said, I’m here at the airport. Can I come over? We got married a year later. And he began practicing in our pool house, exactly the way he wanted to practice with specializing in chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. He’s an internist and an allergist immunologist. So he started doing the groups with me. And we started working together in any case, after I started working with the design system. Rob was not the most honorable man he spent a lot of time in our home. We got him a lot of readings to do. And after some things that he did, I didn’t want anything more to do with him. But I got a phone call in 1999 from one of the human design people saying, Rod is in trouble. He’s bankrupt. Can you and Marvin help him? By getting him readings? Could he come to your house with his family and stay and you’ll get him readings and help him so I said I’ll call you back. And I spoke to Marvin, and we both agreed that we didn’t fully trust him. But the message he brought was valuable, and we needed to honor it. So we said yes, and when he arrived, he asked us to validate the Human Design System scientifically. I said no, Marvin said yes. So it felt me to do it because I’m the social scientist who knows how to analyze data. So I analyzed the Human Design System on 30,000 cases. I tested fibromyalgia patients 100, who Marvin had in his practice, addiction patients who came out of an addiction clinic in New Mexico. heart attack patients, AIDS patients, and AIDS heart attacks on general population and I found that the body graph held in terms of type, but there were five types, not four types. Centers held because the factor analyses held together but a lot of the medical information was faulty. And a lot of what Ross said about the design was did not hold up to science. Things like tones bases and colors did not check out profile did not check out and what the task I had been given by raw was to separate Marvin and myself from the human design community, because he was dumbing that down and he wanted the science kept separate and wanted us to tested clinically and statistically. So given that Raul was not really interested in the science, in 2002, I separated from him ended our contract, at which point I owned all the copyrights and had written 13 books with him and introduced him to the dream design which he didn’t understand and also to the importance of working with the integrated matrices. Because there were four matrices. There’s a mental world. There’s a spiritual world, which is a 2012 Gate matrix, a 25 Gate matrix. That’s the biological physical world. And 33 Gate matrix, which is the emotional angelic world, which is a matrix I downloaded.

Sunshine   32:33

That and that is that is exactly the one where I was so fascinated when I was reading a little bit about before worlds because we often Eleanor go into mind body spirit, mind body spirit, right? Most if you’re gonna go into that esoteric space anywhere, you know yoga, holistic, it’s mind body spirit, but you literally apply that fourth one which is the emotion and I was I was fascinated by that. So I’d love you said you download it. I’d love to if you just spend a little bit of a moment sharing like, what was that? Like? How was that? And why is it so important that it’s separate?

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  33:10

I was working with what happened was Ron gave me the dream design. He didn’t know what it was. It was based on the fact that when he was with the voice, and the voice spent five days giving him the exact body graph. Now the body the Human Design System, is a synthesis. It’s a synthesis of the tree of life. Chakras, astrology, the eaching and the piece that I added to it was developmental sequences in early human development. And I did that because I began to notice that when people slept in the dream state, that made a big difference if their design changed. And Rodan understand about that. And also, I was working with it and working with the statistical aspects of it. I knew I sent to raw, well raw we can channel from the mental world. And the dream layer, the spiritual world doesn’t have the crown and the archer. So there’s another matrix. And he said, Yes, there is the voice told me there’s another matrix, but didn’t give it to me. So I said, Okay, I need to download it. So I asked for help.

Sunshine   34:52

I’ll share this l&r Just so that I don’t lose it but there’s this interesting thought that just popped into my head around this because I did a little bit of reading and could kind of understand the concept behind that you know, the the dream matrix of this, this is that collective consciousness, I think is what you said. So when we talk about like so many I do recognize myself as a witch as well as like a very powerful magician. And so if I do work, that is the place that it’s at. Right right is up in that space in order to pull it back down into the physical world? Yes,

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  35:24

this seat now. I’ve done a few things different than rock. Okay, there’s, in order to validate what wasn’t holding up. I needed to see if what I was calling at the time the triple design matrix held up. In other words, is there a connection? And does it correlate statistically, that we can look at type in other worlds and I used my twin kittens, whose birth time I had to the second one died at age 10 of cardiomyopathy and the other live to 18. So I used their lunar minute calculation to find the physiologic difference between the kittens. And that gave me the physical world. The spiritual world is a lunar calculation using lunar degree. The mental world uses 88 Solar degrees. So it made logical sense that if I use the solar minute, I would get another calculation that would be the other world. And I after I spoke to raw, I spent time in meditation, and I was downloaded the 33 Gate matrix, which is the emotional world. Now what’s really interesting about the emotional world is it has no solar plexus. Reactivity only occurs in the mental world. I

Sunshine   37:10

love that I love it so much. So one of the ways that I first started to understand a little bit about human design, and I remember as I said, I was talking to my friend, and I said, if she was trying to explain it to me, I said, I got this interesting picture in my head of like, that design happened. The moment that the the ego basically that the spirit connected to the physical and the ego was born, thus the solar plexus, so to speak, right. And so I love that it wouldn’t have it right. That is such a physical, mental. Yeah,

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  37:42

right. The emotional reactivity is the solar plexus and it connects through a portal to the spiritual to the emotional, angelic world. So in my thinking, REM sleep, and I I show all of the designs in the 64 Gate matrix, as well as the its own individual matrix, because when we’re being impacted over time, by the different energies that got come together and integrate, we’re in a 64 Gate metrics, even though each world may not have all the gates. So

Graham Skidmore  38:32

don’t before I started, you’re always on such a good role in building I never know it’s hard for me to try to time

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  38:39

and I can talk forever so

Graham Skidmore  38:40

cool. So you want to kind of backup the backup a few gates pun intended to the discussion about the solar plexus? Both because I think that that’s an important thing for people to understand, and why human and getting a kind of a gateway to understanding human design because the solar plexus is such an active it’s such an active place in the body. For those that have it I don’t know for those that are more, you know, intuitive or psychic

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  39:10

stuff. Solar Plexus is very crucial. Physiologically. And it’s not meant to be mentally impacted, because our body functions automatically and we can interact with it. The physical and one of the ways one of the reason I brought this information out publicly now is that the voice told me to do it. And I’m a Tai Chi Gong teacher, and we do figure eights, mental to physical, spiritual to emotional and so I was sending Am I my husband’s bedside after he had surgery, doing figure eights and the voice said to me, You know what you have? Your layout is the figure eight. You know what the charts are? Make it public. Now’s the time. The I believe that the spiritual world is the unified integrated field of consciousness. When we dream and sleep in REM there is carryover between the cortex of the spiritual downloads were getting into the mental world. So in brain scans, we know that during REM sleep, this carryover, that’s why we don’t remember our dreams fully, because it’s two different states of consciousness. And consciousness is state specific. So when we wake up and we’re in a different world, we lose some of the information from the spiritual world unless we’re really tuned in. So the, you know, I have to make sense out of how is it that emotional reactivity is in the physical world and the biologic world the mental world, but not in the emotional angelic world. There is a portal gate in the emotional world, between the solar plexus and the sacral center. And that portal gate connects the worlds so each world has portals that connect to it. And those portals are very crucial. So when I work with the four worlds, I tell people, emotional reactivity is part of the mental and physical world and your job is to transform emotional reactivity spiritually it’s one of the most important end communication skills are world specific.

Sunshine   42:08

You know, I think it may be helpful your Eleanor because, you know, I’ve got the question of like, why is this important to you know, humans? Do you have some like use cases, some tangible use cases that you could share with us that really show what you’re talking about? Right, as an individual is going to be exploring this and becoming more you know, kind of comfortable with these four worlds and how they work together? How is this benefiting people and I, I know you said that it benefits even the health of like relationships, can you can you give us a story, an example or something that’s that would ground some of our listeners into what you’re talking about?

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  42:50

Yes, with numerous of my clients, once they open up to recognizing the four worlds looking at your values by world is very important in gaining clarity, because in relationships, for example, the values are critical. So if one person and I’ll give you a really beautiful example, I have a client who came to me with the intention to be a good mom. But really, her marriage was in trouble. So shortly after I started working with her, and I had a session with her and her husband, and he was there very emotionally abusive. And they were talking about an incident in Beverly Hills. We lived in California at that point where they came out of a restaurant and she said something to the valet that he objected to. And he was reaming her out for what she said to the valet, and it was a simple question. You know, how long are we going to need to wait or something? Most people wouldn’t have reacted to. And fast forward they separated. He filed a separation right before it would have been time for the prenup to end. So fast forward five years later, I’m talking to my female client, and she’s home schooling her children. And I said to her Are you aware Do you remember what your first presenting complaint was and what your goal was? She said, not really. I said it was to be a good mom. And look what you’re doing now. You’re home with your kids, and you love being a mom. And I said and let’s look at the designs for you and your ex husband. And I pulled it out. And sure enough in her spiritual design, she had the channel that anchors spirit. And where I always say to somebody you marched to your own drum. And you know what, you know when you know it, and if somebody tells you you don’t know what they’re wrong, do not compromise. You’re not selfish, but you know when you know what you know. And then we looked at his and I said to her look at his design. He’s emotionally reactive in the solar plexus and he has the channel that attaches him to money so you started out spiritually aligned through the 3457 10 but then he veered off and lost to spiritual purpose and your values changed. He became oriented to power and money and you became more and more oriented to spirit. So you’re on different trajectories. Now have they been in tune with the four worlds or when I was working with them five years ago? If I had taught them before worlds, it may have made a difference. Communication skills are very world specific. So he was talking in one language about the mental world and his concern for his business, his reputation only in the mental world. And his wife was not speaking mentally she was speaking spiritually and he could not embrace the spiritual. She couldn’t embrace that power hungry drive for more money than anyone would need in the world. So that was like an aha moment of okay. Now we need to integrate the four worlds into therapy into values into communication in a whole different way.

Sunshine   47:52

And if I if I’m understanding it correctly, here l&r What you’re saying is these four worlds and just to repeat them again, we’ve got the mental world, the physical world, the spiritual world, and the emotional world and the integrated world, and the integrated world. And so what you’re what I’m hearing you say is that as an individual, I have values as it relates to each and every one of those worlds. And so when I kind of say, you know, asked about relationships, what you’re saying is, well, hey, listen, if I’m going to partner with someone, I should take a look at my values in those worlds, their values in those worlds. And let’s say if they don’t match, you need to be able to see if you can have a conversation about it. Right to see to see if that’s okay right cuz pay you know maybe you know I’ve got a friend that is a diehard recycler you know, values everything like very, you know, and I’m like, That’s cool, I can respect that. But, you know, if I throw away a milk bottle, you know, and forget to throw it in the recycling. I don’t feel guilty about it. Right. Right. So that, to me, sounds a lot of what you’re saying these values in these worlds, do you do you have any examples? Maybe have a value like, are they different in each of these worlds? Are they just, you know, I’m picturing this like matrix of values and things of that nature.

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  49:14

I actually have a worksheet because I did teach a class on the four worlds. And I’m going to start teaching about the four worlds again, separate from human design, because in human design, there are four worlds and the integrated and in fact, whereas my statistics originally showed that about 34% of the population are manifesting generators. In the integrated world, more than 95% of the population are manifesting generators. So to say to somebody, you’re a projector, and you can do XY and Z is disempowering. And we don’t get to be who we are for the first three months of her life, which is when we have volition and choice and the worlds come in at critical periods. So I have a worksheet for my clients. I call it the clarity worksheet for World clarity exercise, where I break them down. Here’s what I love in the mental world. Here’s what I love in the spiritual, the emotional, the physical and the integrated. Here’s what I sustain what I do, I don’t love it, I’m neutral. And here’s what I do not want to do, what I can’t live with. And if every couple were to do that, and then talk about it using appropriate skills. The relationship could survive.

Graham Skidmore  50:50

Yeah, I want to make sure I understood this correctly, too. And when you’re talking about like the solar plexus and using your example and it also is like look there while two people can have similar wiring, and yet and yet have totally drastically different paths based on their own set of choices. Yes. So okay, which I think is important because there’s a certain aspect where like when you know, Lisa immunogenic Speaking for myself, you’re always when you when you come to a new understanding, you’re like, oh, maybe this is that thing that just makes everything a bit easier. Well, you know, after an after a certain number of those, oh, it’s gonna get easier. Now once I know this is and you realize, no, it really doesn’t, right? You then start to you know, then that you kind of get to that at some point in time, no matter which way you go like like all all paths when it comes to using the information to best improve one’s quality of life always comes back to one’s own set of decisions. There is no magic wiring or anything else that’s going to absolve anybody of anything besides, Hey, your quality of life still comes back to your own decisions regardless of your wiring. There’s no way of right like that’s still a gray area. And that’s I guess, that’s ultimately what one, right determines how they determine the quality of life. Right. It’s just through their decisions and that it’s, it’s quite essential.

Sunshine   52:04

Yeah, Eleanor and I based upon what Graham saying, I think this is why identifying your values becomes so important. Because then you’re gonna start making decisions based upon those values. Right? Or, you know, you’re gonna start recognizing, let’s say, if you’re talking about a partner, how you might need to make a decision like maybe you need to concede to make a decision based upon their values because of the situation right so like, without that piece of the values being identified, you know, to me, there’s a check in

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  52:35

values and also how we make choices and which world we’re making the choices in. So that’s, you know, I encourage people to meditate, to go out in nature to do Tai Chi Gong or some other exercise practice that fulfills their their spiritual need. We need you can’t, people cannot just live in the mental world and expect to be integrated. They need to go inside without influence from outside except for their animals. Because animals put us into the collective archetype and unconscious because they live there. So I always encourage people to have their animals with them when they’re meditating. I felt really honored this morning. We, my husband and I usually meditate on our bed in the morning, and we have the two dogs at least. But this morning, one of the cats came and sat on my lap and I went Oh, yeah. So it the integrating the world is interesting. And also, recently I keep having new awareness about what’s in the body map, and what turns on and off. So for example, there’s a gate in the physical world, the 54th Gate, which is can be mystical but it has to do with the balance, balancing our body on a physiologic level and it connects to a portal in the emotional, angelic world that has to do with goals. So it suddenly occurred to me Oh, so anyone who has that gait, must really be clear on their physiologic and physical goals, as well as their other goals and how they integrate. So we need to make sure that when we’re setting goals, because the goal the first goal in life is called need for achievement, or the need for competence, and it’s the first thing developmental psychologists study is the need for achievement. And it’s the 54th eighth in the body graph. So we need to think about what is our primary push in our life. And for me, obviously, I’m a researcher and a help agent. And I came in with that as a mission. Everybody has their mission, and the timing of how you orchestrate it is mapped out in the full world for many many people. So

Graham Skidmore  56:06

speaking of timing and mission, I want to go back to something you said way in the beginning that really piqued my interest. Okay. And seems really appropriate now, which was you said if you needed a PhD if you’re gonna have credibility and spirituality, yes, and and so. So what I’m very curious on your initial thought behind why that isn’t in my next question. If it comes across cynical it’s not meant to it’s meant to give me a perspective to combat the cynicism that from others right I guess, because I don’t know how to answer the question myself, which is, can you really get it? Can you really get credibility and spirituality? Right? Is it really because people are gonna believe that they’re gonna believe so is that you know, like a jumbo shrimp thing.

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  56:53

I felt like I needed to study it. You know, I read memories, dreams, reflections when I was 15. And I come from a family with a history of Jungian analysts. So psychology is a natural it was so easy for me to do psychology. It was like, I didn’t have to study I just knew it. But I knew that it was so mental world limited. That when I am in my utopian training, all of my professors are talking about numinous experiences. And even Joseph Campbell, when we went Marvin and I went to a workshop with Joseph Campbell at UCLA for a whole weekend, and at the end of it I went up to him and I said, So Joseph, have you ever had numinous experiences? And he said, No. No. And my younger dnn was teachers said no. And I thought, how can you be talking about spirituality if you’ve never experienced God? How can you talk about a numinous experience if you’ve never had one? And I knew that the field of psychology would left me out. They wouldn’t listen to me if I didn’t have a PhD.

Sunshine   58:31

Yeah, I keep getting this little hit. And, you know, to your question there, Graham, she didn’t need it. Right. Like it was more so like the universe needed you to go down that path in order to get to the point to do what you needed to do. Right. You know, so you’d mentioned at some point, I don’t think I think it was before we we’d hit recording about Steve Jobs, and we often don’t understand the journey until we you know, we the only way that we can understand that the journey is by looking back at it. Right

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  59:01

and, and look, I if I hadn’t gotten the PhD I wouldn’t have been able to do the statistics. And I wouldn’t still be looking at right now as I’m putting together the classes and my mentorship program for people who are practitioners who want to learn how to read the charts. The way I do it. I’m thinking, I’m gonna have an army of researchers to collect data, because we need the mental world to accept the spiritual world. That’s

Sunshine   59:36

it, Eleanor I gotta connect you to my friend because she has a past and research as well. So like, I keep getting pokes I keep getting pokes this whole conversation. I was like, You got it. I just all I keep hearing is you gotta connect it to you gotta like okay. I, I adore like learning and listening to your journey and there’s just, I want to pause and kind of reflect right? Because once again, a lot of what we’re here to do it with his podcast is to kind of share that journey. And your journey has been, you know, you’ve been at this for a long time. So I think that’s absolutely beautiful. I really love that. Yeah, I love that reflection. But it’s not been linear, right? You have gone all sorts of various different paths. But I want to say there’s there’s one thing that I think is like really, really, really beautiful about it, and you’ve referred to it as the voice. Right? You’ve, you know, you’ve even referred to it as God but you have at some point in your life decided that you are going to start looking inward for the answers and listening to where you need it to be guided, versus like the external kind of influences. That

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:00:49

was my first memory. When, in my first memory very specific. When I you know, as a psychologist, you go through your own analysis. So I was in a 14 analysis and a youngin analysis and none of my analysts knew what to do with the memory. And if the memory was maybe I was a month old because i My father was holding me and I was an infant, and I was comfortable in his arms, and then all of a sudden the energy between him and my mother changed. And I started squirming. Because the energy in the room changed. And they didn’t know what to do with me. So I remember them, you know, moving me around and and they didn’t get it. They just didn’t get it. And I think at that moment, I knew that if I was going to be myself, I needed to not respond to those things that other people could not perceive. And I can trick track through my whole childhood where periodically I would say things and I would get this look like where did that come from? And I couldn’t stop it. I mean, you know, I knew things and my oldest sister was probably the most psychic of us, but she was terrified of it. And she was pre cognitive. So would predict something and then it would happen she’d go hysterical. But my mother would say, Yeah, you know, we come from a psychic family. And I just knew that I could find things for friends when they lost something they call me and say, can you find this I lost it? And I tune in and I tell them where to go to find it. So

Sunshine   1:03:12

I’ve got to ask this question because I keep hearing it in my head and question scenario. I want your perspective on this. I think Graham, you’ll appreciate this. So my 19 year old niece Eleanor moved in with me last summer, and she’s she’s a brilliant little, you know, mind and I adore it so much but her and I are sitting there last night talking and I’m I have this habit that I have to like, you know, use it and I’m noticing I’ve got to like run things between my fingers. And then I’m talking to her about like, I’ve done some reading that it’s you know, you call it stemming and I’m like, I’m the Undiagnosed ADHD and I but I go to her I said, Because I get this hit in me that says something along the lines of ADHD right attention deficit, okay. Is this prevalence of increase in ADHD truly like a medical or like they’ve tried to claim it’s like, you know, the food or whatever. But I said, attention deficit. It’s really hard. To pay attention when your psychic senses are heightened, because you’re getting information from everywhere. So we’ve got the attention deficit, and then we go into the hyperactivity piece, right. It is very hard, right, even as an adult sometimes to manage the influence of energetic around me. And so therefore, if I’m uncomfortable in an energetic state, what’s my habit I just showed you I do the stimming right. But how could a child know and understand that maybe they need to jump they need to bounce you know or anything of that nature? And so I had this bike Jake, get it question mark that popped into my head last night that said, what if this you know, increase of ADHD diagnosis with children is actually more and more of the signs of you know, this Age of Aquarius type of piece where more and more people are starting to realize everything you’re talking about how important and critical it is, how all of these, you know, these these psychic abilities or these extrasensory, you know, perception so I’m curious as a researcher expecially with that developmental kind of research behind you, do you have a perspective

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:05:20

it’s an interesting question. I haven’t thought about it. I think some of it is mental overload. And the inability of the culture at this point to recognize the spiritual awareness of children. And I’m pretty horrified at the fact that babies are now being put into daycare. And overstimulated on a mental level with no acknowledgement of the space they need to be spiritual beings and to find themselves before somebody tells them who they need to be in the world. So I’m more concerned with what we’re doing to young children that conditions out who they really are, and puts in the emphasis on the emotional and mental world where instead of being taught how to transform emotional reactivity, spiritually, they’re being taught to suppress it.

Sunshine   1:06:48

No, I would say that was spot on. And there’s other interesting thing I don’t know if you’ve ever explored it. You know, maybe the researcher and you would love this thought or maybe you’re like, yeah, that doesn’t make any sense. But this picture kind of painted in my head. I’m wondering if there you know, if you were to go back like 50 years and pull charts of people, and are there differences like because you know, we’ve got these more, nor are there differences. And so if, if not, is it literally just that the fact that society is now becoming more open to this, that we’re starting to actually see and recognize the problem? Right, I think because we would have conditioned it out. Like I would guess, night before the 90s it will always have been conditioned out majority of the time your family blessed, but you are a rare a rare story, huh?

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:07:43

It’s fascinating. People are still conditioning it out.

Sunshine   1:07:46

Oh, I know. I know. And,

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:07:48

you know, I’ve with my clients, and with some friends and I mentioned the baby, who you know, I told the parents she seen energy don’t condition it out. I saw that with my grandpa. He was a preemie and with a preemie I didn’t know developmentally what to expect. So he was on the floor in my office, six weeks old sort of looking around like this. And I couldn’t catch his eye and couldn’t get him to smile. And I standing there thinking, Is he okay, does he have issues? What’s going on? And then suddenly, I said, Oh, no. You’re seeing energy. And he looked right at me and he smiled. And I said to my daughter, don’t condition it out. Now she sees energy, because I didn’t condition it out. And my son sees energy. He didn’t, you know, but we didn’t condition it out. Okay.

Graham Skidmore  1:09:00

I see a potential for a controversial topic, and I just don’t know. So let me ask you how this pops up. So especially as it ties into what you just referred to Sunshine regarding, like, Age of Aquarius and you know, little, you know, in a in a change in in, caught in the consciousness crap that’s popping up as kids we’ll just call it and so, how do you so how does your How do your teachings take into consideration the, or bridge the gap, I guess, between one approach of you know, each person has their own consciousness and so while yes, there’s this connection, connectivity to parents, there’s also this independence from parents, which is very different than another approach which of parenting which is, hey, that kid there, look, that’s mine. I own that I created that with this other person. So therefore, that little thing there is a reflection of me, I don’t need anybody to tell me anything. Because you know, ultimately, that’s half me.

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:10:00

values.

Graham Skidmore  1:10:01

So yeah, so how does all that so how does that kind of blend in together with and you know, with what you teach and how you how do you bridge that gap?

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:10:11

The field of psychology is focused on the mental world. And all of the constructs in psychology are put into conscious unconscious, super conscious, collective unconscious, but we’re all looking through the lens of awaken consciousness. My work is saying, wait a minute, this is wrong. Consciousness is multi dimensional. And we need to look at where we’re working. The mental world is great for the reality plane. It’s great to make money in the mental world. It’s great to have life you know, a home and finances and all of that. But really, you’re not going to be happy unless you go inside and find your spiritual core. And that spiritual core informs what you do in your life. So I’ve often said I’ve never worked a day in my life. I love what I do. I do what I love. And I didn’t know when I started a private practice that people didn’t do that. I had no money. I was newly divorced, had volunteered for an internship because I was married and he was making money and we didn’t need the money. And then I divorced him, and I had no money. And I didn’t know that you didn’t do that. You know, I followed my heart and my spirit but we need to teach people what skills to use. For example, if I have a couple who’s not communicating with each other, I’m going to use a Mago dialogue. skills to not engage emotional reactivity. If I’m if I have a child who’s acting out behaviorally, I’m going to work with them in the mental world using something like parent effectiveness, active listening, and goal setting. If I’m dealing with someone who is anxious for example, I might get them to meditate and find where they need to settle inside themselves. So the field of psychology needs to begin to broaden to the different worlds recognizing that one size does not fit all. And if I have I’ve worked with parents and children, usually it takes me one session with a child and a parent to turn it around. Because I speak directly to the child not to the parent. And children are very conscious. They’ll tell you exactly what they need and what’s going on with them. If you know how to ask. And then you just need to empower them, give them a couple of skills, and they’re often running. So it’s an educational process to teach people how to relate. Nobody teaches people how to have a relationship

Sunshine   1:13:55

it’s a very rare thing. There’s a social worker that I’m friends with locally that actually does lead an authentic relating. Right and she does it every two weeks, and I’ve participated in it and yeah, it’s it’s fascinating to realize how many folks that do not truly understand how to create an intimate connection. Right? And that’s relating I can bypass you on the street and say hi, but I think what you’re referring to in a relationship is an intimate connection that you have with someone

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:14:26

how do you talk to somebody in an intimate relationship when you have an issue?

Sunshine   1:14:33

Oh, yeah, yep. Yep, just did that yesterday and this morning, so

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:14:38

Exactly. And the skill to use depending on the reading of the other person could be I always say if you’re a couple and you’re in a fight, just say to the other person, what do you want to have happen now? It ends an argument. You know, that takes them internal. Clean Language takes people internal. What do you want to have happen now? And when that happens, then what happens and what difference does it make? And what do you know? What do you know now? And then what do you know? And what difference does it make? Yeah, those are internal spiritual questions.

Sunshine   1:15:26

And yes, this might be like, I certainly don’t intend to simplify, but I do. Simplify what you do. You’ve got a breadth of background, but it sounds like a real passion of yours right outside of just helping people is helping people understand themselves so that they can relate better. Right? Yeah. So if we understand who we are, what our own values are, we understand how we operate in those worlds. Right then we very well may be able to relate better to others or even help others understand how to relate to us.

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:15:59

I do a free webinar every Thursday at noon. And I do it with my husband and we talk about the four worlds and the transformations we’re seeing and people are amazing. Amazing, because they let go of things that are hanging in their aura when they go inside, and they can see the worlds for what they are they can begin to interact and let go.

Sunshine   1:16:32

You know Eleanor I think this is actually a really beautiful place. I you know, you you you have a handful of things that I saw that you offer. I know we talked earlier about even you know you kind of introducing the four worlds from one of the you know the books for today, which you’d like to share that with us right now. Right where he we’re recording this folks on on April 13. And I’ll just share Well, Eleanor’s pull pulling this up. She shared with us that she used all of her you know beautiful knowledge and created this book that takes a look at each of the individual days and breaks down kind of what you need to be aware of as it relates to each of these worlds. So let’s take a look and see what that April 13 is and you know, maybe it helps Graham and I have a little bit of a better approach to how we continue on with our day.

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:17:15

This is the book and I wrote based on the astrology for each day in the full world statements for each world. So for April 13. In the mental world, focus and detail helps clarify decisions. Pay attention and ask for the details you need so you can plan ahead for yourself properly. Spiritual world self care is essential to the care of others. Focus on your inner smile that enhances your self abour sense of worth. Emotional world use healthy emotions to boy you up when you begin to question your feelings. Avoid impulsive reactivity. Physical World enhance physical health by practicing visualizations of healthy life practices and integration because you may be open and vulnerable to the energy and feelings of others. It is important to ground yourself in what you already know about yourself and your reality. remain vigilant to new information. So you can change your orientation and actions accordingly.

Sunshine   1:18:57

I love that thank you so much for that

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:18:58

oh one or what I recommend is that people we read the for the statements every morning. And then in the book. There’s

Graham Skidmore  1:19:09

by the way for those that can’t see who are just listening the name of it is what Eleanor

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:19:14

cosmic guidance for mastering your life. Daily notes and there’s room in the book for people to write their observations from the day and how the worlds impacted them on each day. Oh, that’s beautiful. And I have two Reiki books I wrote and I did meet Mrs. Takata who brought it to the west. So I have her notes incorporated in my Reiki books.

Graham Skidmore  1:19:43

I will also add sir real quick I can tell you that just listening is does not give does not give what Eleanor has put together and what she’s read justice. So I would encourage you, you know if anyone if what you sounded like seems like it could be interesting. Going into visualization, you know, check out a few of the sample pages. You know, on your website. I’m sure you provide that information. To really get a much better flavor for it because anyway, I just don’t think that a verbal as awesome as it is doesn’t doesn’t give a true justice. And so I just want to make sure that the listeners understand that.

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:20:15

And anyone who wants it’s the membership on my website is still free and there are archives of all of the webinars and all of the materials that I’ve developed to go with the webinars. So you do a search for the four worlds clarity exercise or I could send it to you and you can post it with the

Sunshine   1:20:45

make sure that we do that. Yeah,

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:20:46

I can send that to you because that’s useful in terms of getting clear within oneself as to your values and where you are in each world.

Sunshine   1:20:59

Eleanor I think this is we’re talking about your book, and I think this is great, but I would love for you just to take an opportunity now to let folks know folks are listening and you know, I find that individuals that listen to topics of this nature, right, often stumble on it at the right time. Right. And so if you’ve got somebody that’s listening right now, that has you know, who is that person that you would like to call forward? Who is that person that’s listening right now that you want to make sure that they are aware that they are the ideal person to come forward and reach out and connect with you? How might you be able to help them

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:21:35

I can help anyone in any of the four areas relationships, making more money, communication, health. The four worlds tap into everything and I know that people are interested in self growth, and a lot of us have been junkies looking for the quick fix. And, you know, I’ve done that because there are so many gurus who say we can make a difference. But they’re not giving you the multi dimensional perspective that as I shared about my client, no therapist is going to help someone who’s focused only in the mental world. And wants to gain clarity but doesn’t delve into their own spirit to find what resonates with them and what aligns with them and how they need to interface with other people and relate in a way that taps into soul. And without relationships that happen to soul. We don’t have anything.

Sunshine   1:22:55

Yeah, I’m a recovering alcoholic Eleanor and that spiritual component is a very huge part of my recovery. So yeah, I adore that you share that and, you know, so I would encourage anybody that is listening, if you’re getting that, you know that response right now you’re getting that ache to reach out, you’re like, hey, this sounds really interesting. I feel like there’s a place you know, where I could be, you know, helped that Eleanor could be of assistance right now. Don’t hesitate to reach out and if that’s the case, Eleanor how do they find you? Where do they go to find you?

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:23:27

Yeah, Noble Energy wellness.com. And there’s a booking calendar on my website. As I said, we do a free webinar. Every Thursday at noon Eastern time. And I do offer if somebody wants to schedule 15 minutes with me, it’s usually more like a half hour and if they send me their birth information, I’m happy to do their design and show them how they function in the full worlds and that most people especially human design, people who’ve been misinformed about their type. It’s very, I had one person who I recently he thought he was a projector and I showed him his chart, and he’s actually really strong manifesting generator generator in the integrated and he said to me, it really initially knocked him for a loop. But it was so empowering to know that it’s a question of how he navigates the worlds that allow him to manifest and he’s not just one note. And we all have choice. And my work shows because the critical periods in the expansion of the science, the fact that the calculations exactly time two critical periods in human development and stop at three months, which is now considered the missing fourth trimester. So physiologically, everything tracks and psychologically everything tracks. So just

Sunshine   1:25:20

you just gave me a whole nother set of questions, but I’m like, wow, that was that missing trimester gave me a whole nother boat. That’s another time we go on ask. Well, no, I mean, so this fascinating concept of I mean, I’m guessing you’ve done it, you’ve compared the birth time to potentially a three month time afterwards. And we know

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:25:39

we know in pediatric literature that a baby babies gastrointestinal system is not developed for three months. So that’s why babies have colic. Yeah. And when, in many cultures a week after birth, is when they name the baby or consider that the soul is anchored. So when I got these when I did my calculations and looked, and it hit every developmental marker, between birth and three months of age, I went holy. Shit. This validates the four worlds. It without scientifically validates developmental critical periods, like a two days after birth attachment happens. It’s the solar minute it’s the emotional world matrix. Two days after birth, is when the mother’s milk comes down. And the attachment is secure. So it’s in the charts. So looking back retrospectively the charts validated a personality theory. So

Sunshine   1:27:04

I want to call this out too just because you know, I want to be conscious of some time because we can keep going that’s that’s why I want to make sure I there’s something else that I want to say that just came to me for so folks that are listening, Eleanor, tell me if this is also if they are trying to not just understand maybe themselves but are trying to understand how to be a better parent to the story you said better parent to their children. Yeah, that is probably an also a place that and it seems like a place you’re very fired up about to i

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:27:33

Yeah. Yeah, I’ve actually I’m in the process of developing a program that will be online with a free report and it should be ready within a couple of weeks. At the same time, I wrote a whole series of databases for the human design community, one of which was for parents of young children, and another one for parents of teenagers on how to manage communicating with someone who’s a certain type. Now it’s not, you know, it’s a compromise for me to do that, because it’s just the human design chart. But at least it’s broader than what they would get if it was just in human design language.

Sunshine   1:28:25

I mean, it’s a step forward, right let’s let’s be real, they have other questions. Do you have other concerns? It’s not hitting right. They should reach out to you, right? I mean, that’s, that’s the reality of it. I love this. And so I got Yeah.

Graham Skidmore  1:28:39

The other thing is, even though I think there’s I just want to plug the importance of even though I get, even though it may not be from a practitioner point standpoint, that’s ideal. One of the, you know, the from the the patient or the person perspective, right, so many people are stuck in you know, you know, fight or flight, that getting at it, you know, being able to get out of that too, before you can even take on anything else. So that little bit of help that even though it might not it that that practical life advice is sometimes needed, you’d be able to free up the time and mental space and spiritual space to build be able to get into the deep stuff, right so I just I only say that meaning like hey, you know, there’s a lot of you know, I’ve personally benefited because people have allowed you know, provided some of the you know, I don’t want to use I don’t want to call make it a marketing thing, but like that, like the loss leader of information, right? Which is that thing because they were willing to give it allowed me to get to a place that I could go down to deeper paths. So thank you for putting that out there even though it may not be you know, feel super good. There’s gonna be a lot of people that get benefit from, you know, being able to understand themselves without somebody having to charge them for it when they need it. You know, just Yeah.

Sunshine   1:29:48

Especially especially this parent to child thing. Let’s be real. You know, our future is dependent upon how us as adults are raising the next generation. So we need all the help that we can get to be able to raise these children to be better than who we are today. That’s right.

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:30:04

And we need to let them know that spirit is king.

Sunshine   1:30:12

I amen on that one I amen on that one. I believe that. Eleanor, this has been incredible. I have adored this conversation so much as I said, we could continue going on for probably another a couple hours, days, maybe a couple weeks with the different questions because you are a breath analysis. Thank you so much. I just want to be in that gratitude. So

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:30:35

grateful to have been here and I encourage all the listeners you know my calendar is on my website, Noble Energy, wellness and schedule time with me and I’ll include your birth data and for you sunshine and Graham if you want me to do your charts, I’m more than happy to defend

Sunshine   1:30:55

you. And I was about to say that I said you know what I’m doing right after we hang up here today.

Graham Skidmore  1:31:03

Yes, I am. I would be I would be lying if I didn’t tell you that I would very much appreciate a very a more well rounded or whatever insightful perspective into human design beyond whatever what I’ve been introduced to so far. So this is yeah, very exciting.

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:31:17

I’m going to start teaching from the books I wrote with raw with my commentary in June, and I’m going to be doing for world class. Which will be also probably starting in June. And then my goal with the four worlds is to do retreats, because people need to experience each world in action in order to really internalize it and I love doing that. So I think probably in the fall I’ll do a five day retreat. That’s amazing and give people an experience.

Sunshine   1:31:56

Eleanor again, thank you very much. We adored having you on here and as usual the way I watch you the way that we like to wrap everything up you know, Folks, you’re listening in you’re kind of hearing it here a little bit again here you know, find your path find your way. follow that path into your own deepest spirituality. Until next time, my dear friends much love from all of us. To you. And

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:32:20

to you. Thank you

Sunshine   1:32:27

do figure out where to put my little stop recording button is that will help my assistant cut it off and I can’t even find it. So yeah, we’re just gonna keep keep keep it until we’re done. So I’ll just have to take that note for her. Hey, can we transcribe this because she’ll know l&r seriously thank you. That was beautiful. Incredible.

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:32:53

And there was something I was gonna say to you. Oh, I wanted to ask when I get the video, can I put it on my YouTube channel as well?

Sunshine   1:33:06

You are welcome to What we’ll do we actually process the episodes a little bit in the future but I pick because my friend wants to listen. She’s like I would love to listen to that now and I said let me process it will process it this week. And I will give you the link to it as well as send it over to her. And

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:33:21

then you won’t want me to post it until you post it. Is that correct?

Sunshine   1:33:27

No, you’re fine. You’re fine. You’re fine sharing it. I’m okay with that. And then I’m also going to I would love to schedule some time with you and I’m also going to send you over and introduce you to my friend because I told I kept getting all of these pings she needs to reach out to you. The two of you need to talk as I said her name Shannon Shannon Walton is her name. And just so that you know the perspective heard I have this beautiful conversation last week around this hole around the sacral kind of you know manifesting generator and listening to this and she ended up getting this really heavy hit herself and she was like sitting and kind of downloaded about how that sacral how she’s coming to understand it could potentially be misleading sometimes. And I said to her, you know because my download that I got on it was I said that’s really interesting. I said because how would you know if you had five opportunities in front of you and you got to sacral yes to all five what what the path for like, you know that your highest and best path forward would be so hurt. I got into this big deep and I said you know what? I told her I said that you might want to reach out because you might have a very interesting perspective to answer some of the things that she said she’s like balls with

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:34:45

the to make it simple. When I lay out the charts, there’s eight charts that I’m reading in each world, and because things turn on and off between the worlds if you look for example for a lot of people the spiritual the post natal spiritual world, which happens a week after birth has connections that allow them to make a sacrilege aligned spiritually aligned decision. That they wouldn’t have been able to make before that, or that. So the timing of how the sacral works is programmed into the integrated chart.

Sunshine   1:35:36

Yeah, that’ll be really interesting. So I think she’ll appreciate she did say just you know, she said she did say she says I’ve never quite been able to understand how she’s looking at these other charts. So I’ll be interested to see how you helped to kind of shake and change a little bit of her perspective. So Eleanor, thank you again, appreciate so much.

Eleanor Haspel-Portner  1:35:54

Anytime you want me back, just reach out.

Sunshine   1:35:57

Absolutely. And I can’t imagine that will not happen. You know, so I look forward to it the next time. Right, awesome. Well, you take care have a beautiful rest of your weekend, and we will talk again soon. Take care

👉𝐶ℎ𝑒𝑐𝑘 𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑤𝑒𝑏𝑠𝑖𝑡𝑒𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑙𝑒𝑡 𝑆𝑢𝑛𝑠ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑒 𝑔𝑢𝑖𝑑𝑒 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑡ℎ𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ 𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑦!

🤙🏻𝐒𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐝𝐮𝐥𝐞 𝐚 𝐅𝐑𝐄𝐄 𝐒𝐨𝐛𝐞𝐫 𝐂𝐮𝐫𝐢𝐨𝐮𝐬 𝐂𝐚𝐥𝐥

🧡𝐒𝐮𝐧𝐬𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐑𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬 

👍𝐒𝐮𝐧𝐬𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐑𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬 𝐅𝐚𝐜𝐞𝐛𝐨𝐨𝐤 𝐏𝐚𝐠𝐞 

📷 𝐒𝐮𝐧𝐬𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐑𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬 𝐈𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐦

💜𝐈𝐥𝐥𝐮𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐞

👍 𝐈𝐥𝐥𝐮𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐞 𝐅𝐚𝐜𝐞𝐛𝐨𝐨𝐤 𝐏𝐚𝐠𝐞

📷 𝐈𝐥𝐥𝐮𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐞 𝐈𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐦

👍𝐒𝐨𝐛𝐞𝐫 𝐖𝐢𝐭𝐜𝐡’𝐬 𝐁𝐚𝐳𝐚𝐚𝐚𝐫 𝐅𝐚𝐜𝐞𝐛𝐨𝐨𝐤 𝐆𝐫𝐨𝐮𝐩

🚨𝐃𝐨𝐧’𝐭 𝐦𝐢𝐬𝐬 𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐬𝐞 𝐚𝐝𝐝𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐚𝐥 𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐨𝐮𝐫𝐜𝐞𝐬:

📲𝐈𝐥𝐥𝐮𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐞: 𝐒𝐨𝐛𝐞𝐫 𝐖𝐢𝐭𝐜𝐡 𝐀𝐩𝐩: 𝐴𝑉𝐴𝐼𝐿𝐴𝐵𝐿𝐸 𝐼𝑁 𝑇𝐻𝐸 𝐴𝑃𝑃 𝑆𝑇𝑂𝑅𝐸 𝐴𝑁𝐷 𝑃𝐿𝐴𝑌 𝑆𝑇𝑂𝑅𝐸 𝑇𝑂 𝐷𝑂𝑊𝑁𝐿𝑂𝐴𝐷

🔮𝐑𝐞𝐜𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲 𝐏𝐬𝐲𝐜𝐡𝐢𝐜 𝐑𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠:

🔮𝐏𝐚𝐬𝐭 𝐋𝐢𝐟𝐞 𝐒𝐨𝐮𝐥 𝐇𝐞𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐀𝐝𝐝𝐢𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧: 

🧑‍🎨𝐀𝐝𝐝𝐢𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐃𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐧 𝐏𝐚𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠